XO Jet Hawkers

[BushwickBill]

This is now confirmed. No jobs lost. All Hawker pilots have seats in the other fleets.

No explanation for the change in direction. However it's not hard to figure that out, with as much as they were down for mx.

What will happen to all of those poor copilots ready to upgrade in the X and 300 fleet? Bypassed by the hawker guys. Too bad for them I guess...

 

[t-bone]

What will happen to all of those poor copilots ready to upgrade in the X and 300 fleet? Bypassed by the hawker guys. Too bad for them I guess...

In a true seniority-based system, the more senior pilots may bump someone down the list, right? So yes, too bad for them. That's how it works. Seniority doesn't only work to everyone's benefit. But it's better than anyone losing their job, right? To be honest, I'm not sure how the integration will work out. We're just happy that everyone has a seat.

 

[propsarebest]

Left seat guys will go to the left seat, period. There are several airframes that are unstaffed.

 

[imacdog]

What will happen to all of those poor copilots ready to upgrade in the X and 300 fleet? Bypassed by the hawker guys. Too bad for them I guess...

That's how it should work. Company seniority should rule, that way you don't end up with a USA Jet-like situation, where it was "So sorry, we're disposing of XXX aircraft and you're on it, so you're getting furloughed".

 

[BushwickBill]

In a true seniority-based system, the more senior pilots may bump someone down the list, right? So yes, too bad for them. That's how it works. Seniority doesn't only work to everyone's benefit. But it's better than anyone losing their job, right? To be honest, I'm not sure how the integration will work out. We're just happy that everyone has a seat.

Not sure if you understood what I was implying. There are many street captains that were hired into the Hawker well after many of the X and 300 copilots were hired. Also, many copilots upgraded into the hawker and were hired after many X and 300 copilots. So how does that fit into the true seniority situation you fortuitously brought up? If you upgrade using a merit based system does this reset your date of hire?

 

[BushwickBill]

Left seat guys will go to the left seat, period. There are several airframes that are unstaffed.

Interesting,I know of one FO who meets all the criteria to upgrade, including a dozen recs for upgrade. Yet he remains an FO and has flown with the first wave of Hawker captains that moved to the 300 and X fleet, when the initial 3 aircraft were parked. Certain a sign of things to come but it does leave quite a few individuals disenfranchised. Even more so now that a "reserve captain" clause has been added to the GOM. It also leaves these FOs in the rather awkward position of being having experience in type and sometimes in general as the captains they are paired with. All this in an addition to being more senior as well, that is if date of hire counts for anything.

 

[BushwickBill]

That's how it should work. Company seniority should rule, that way you don't end up with a USA Jet-like situation, where it was "So sorry, we're disposing of XXX aircraft and you're on it, so you're getting furloughed".

Are we talking about company seniority by date of hire or by some other metric?

 

[t-bone]

Not sure if you understood what I was implying. There are many street captains that were hired into the Hawker well after many of the X and 300 copilots were hired. Also, many copilots upgraded into the hawker and were hired after many X and 300 copilots. So how does that fit into the true seniority situation you fortuitously brought up? If you upgrade using a merit based system does this reset your date of hire?

Fair enough. I should have clarified that we don't operate under a true seniority system here. While what you said is entirely true, there are also almost 75 pilots hired into the other fleets AFTER those Hawker guys were hired. So in other words, it's a mess. The good news is nobody lost their job. The bad news is, our lack of a seniority system has reared its head again. Nobody should be surprised, they knew what they were getting involved with when they took the job here. We'll see what comes of the situation...

 

[imacdog]

Are we talking about company seniority by date of hire or by some other metric?

Date of hire is pretty standard although having a separate Captain and FO seniority list has its merits as well.

 

[BushwickBill]

Date of hire is pretty standard although having a separate Captain and FO seniority list has its merits as well.

Odd, as the captain I am flying with is more than 50 spots junior to myself. 1000 less hrs in type as well. Date of hire seems rather lacking, no?