Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[oriondriver]

Interesting choice of examples, Gup.

I don't believe TWA/AA list ever went to arbitration, but it WAS one of the motivators for Bond/McCaskil.

The AAA/AWA went relative seniority, with limited exception. Who got the windfall?

Nu

how many years now have they been integrated? USAIR still working under old contract and AWA still under their contract. so it seems to be working great

 

[Kharma Police]

I don't need or want your respect. You can believe anything you want. It honestly makes zero difference to me.

You can screw yourselves all you want. I don't care at all. I am only interested in the bewildering attitude that pilots typically have by the "best pay to the last day" rant they have cutting off their noses despite their faces. Pilots are historically the absolute worst business people ever. You as a group have allowed your average earnings lose 35% of their value over the last 30 years. You are your own worst enemies. And you continue to be more concerned about who someone works for (me) than the message being shared.

I know one fact Karma Police or PCL 128 whichever you want to be, airline managers use your seniority to their advantage. And you are falling into that trap right now and you don't even know it. Even when someone has carefully pointed that out to you, you can't fathom your seniority will be affected by this acquisition. You will not get relative seniority. And if this goes as you say, you are endangered of having no seniority.

Thank you for stating the obvious with the predictable "Chicken Little" rant. You should give The Boyd Group a call, just brush up on your use of metaphors....

 

[Lear70]

Just a little non-moderator-based input.

Kharma and PCL are NOT the same person. PCL is otherwise occupied this evening and likely has discussed about as much as he is likely to in this thread, anyway.

I'm still a bit perplexed by people claiming "flame bait" when the person they're accusing it of is just saying they're not concerned about some type of separate-carrier whipsaw. I'm not concerned about it, either, to tell the truth, nor are any other AAI pilots if our internal message board is any indication of ongoing sentiment.

That may be one reason why you're not hearing much from AirTran pilots on here. I mean, why debate something with someone who you are that far apart on in fundamental beliefs of the situation's reality? Kind of pointless, really, and just serves to alienate each other further. Not to say you don't have the right to feel how you do, but we have the same right to feel how we do, and discussing it just seems to be aggravating everyone with no reason.

Better off not to engage at all and just wish all of us the best of luck and hopes for a profitable future together. YMMV... :beer:

 

[400ADude]

Here's some non-moderator input. We don't want you. Any questions?

 

[Cruncher]

I hope this all falls through.

Is this something we can all agree with? Serious question.

 

[doh]

This will not fall through. The guys with the money do not want it to fall through. You will negotiate a list or you will get an arbitrated list. Lots of you, from both sides, will not like the list.

 

[Lear70]

Here's some non-moderator input. We don't want you. Any questions?

Evidently Gary Kelly does, as does the Southwest BoD, not to mention the majority of your pilots I've run into on the jumpseats the last month don't seem to be quite as hostile about the acquisition as some on this board, so I'm guessing your view MIGHT be in the minority.

Just a thought... could be wrong, it's happened before. Just along for the ride, like most of the rest of us.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

This will not fall through. The guys with the money do not want it to fall through. You will negotiate a list or you will get an arbitrated list. Lots of you, from both sides, will not like the list.

Ohh now DOH. All the Airtran guys will luv the list. According to several of the Trannies on here they will get relative seniority or better. I think in the interest of unity they holding back on saying they expect that the arbitrator will award them at least the first 1700 spots.

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

Kharma, your Hitler reference borders WAY too close on personal attack, I'm going to ask you to take the hostility down a notch, please.

Moderator hat off:

Not to mention the Hitler reference does nothing to foster unity in working together in the future. Remember, some day we're going to fly alongside these guys and gals, try not to take the bait that some people are throwing out there. I know it's aggravating to be deliberately taunted, but sometimes the better part of valor is restraint.

Take a deep breath, go read the private board for a bit or just have a frosty adult beverage and think about your bet on the next Anchor Pool.

 

[hairball1173]

It will happen and one day Airtran will pass into history as many others have in the past. I hope the future holds what the past hasn't in so many ways. I hope the future holds a great and viable future in aviation. I hope that Southwest will continue on their path as many other have failed.

I just hope!!

 

[oriondriver]

just wondering if(hypothetically speaking of course) a few years after total integration WN makes a play for JB if Lear, TY, Kharma and the other ex-AAI bubbas will be pushing for relative seniority for the JB pilots because they say it is the right thing to do. of course by then the citrus green glasses they currently look through will be tinted canyon blue and the JB guys will have to be stapled or worst case DOH.

 

[vixin]

Gee I wonder what the answers will be.

 

[ASADFW7]

I do not think I am alone at SWA thinking this is just the first step in SWA acquisitions. GK stated 40% market share domestically, that would take some more deals.

 

[Kharma Police]

just wondering if(hypothetically speaking of course) a few years after total integration WN makes a play for JB if Lear, TY, Kharma and the other ex-AAI bubbas will be pushing for relative seniority for the JB pilots because they say it is the right thing to do. of course by then the citrus green glasses they currently look through will be tinted canyon blue and the JB guys will have to be stapled or worst case DOH.

Fair question. Since it wouldn't affect me in any way then merge Jetblue on the list just like DAL/NWA. I didn't have any problem with relative seniority when the Midwest Express deal was in the works either.

Since I gave a sincere honest answer, I have a sincere question for you "SWA bubbas". What will you lose with this deal? I know you guys don't think you will gain anything but what will the negative impact be for you and your career?

 

[Bwipilot]

What will you lose with this deal?

The AI pilots on this forum have been pushing relative seniority. It's gone over like a lead balloon since SWA pilots won't get the pay bump the AI pilots will get and will lose expected internal seniority improvements.

We've been waiting for a huge number of 60+ pilots to retire. 500 may not seem like a lot to some. However, that's 20-25% of the pilots on the seniority list above junior captains. It's enough to upgrade 20% of the SWA FOs.

Also, SWA pilots have been waiting expectantly for ramped up internal growth--which has always come with an improved economy. The internal growth, combined with retirements, would help out every SWA pilot. Alas, the aquisition of Airtran replaces that expected internal growth. There's too much for SWA to focus on and a huge amount of capital sunk into the purchase of AAI. Hence, it's another loss of upward growth for pilots even though it will be good for stockholders and the financial health of the company.