Why Do People Bash Swa?

[relief tube]

Paying for the 737 type.

ditto.

by in large there ain't anything wrong with SWA.

But the above and their $39 fares aren't helping anyone.

 

[johnsonrod]

I don't think it is jealousy, although plenty would love to have their pay. I think people continue to bash them because they are so defensive themselves, which can make them appear cocky. They don't like to acknowledge that they had to probably pay their own money to get a type for the chance to interview, which should be something the airline offers, not requires. And then there are the Southwest pilots who deny they have multiple leg trips. We all know by enlarge, that is not true. All of my WN friends here in HOU have very busy trips, although they do have big chunks of days off too. I think they are too defensive, without embracing who they really are.

 

[pilotyip]

ditto.

by in large there ain't anything wrong with SWA.

But the above and their $39 fares aren't helping anyone.

no longer the low cost carrier, they can be beat on just about every route in the 2-3 week in advance buying window. Not bad 6 months in advance, and their refund policy is worth the extra money.

 

[scoreboardII]

Is that considering the free bags? Thought not.

Yes, you must have a type after you are hired, not before.

Yes, SWA pilots fly multiple leg days, heaven forbid a pilot should fly, but we have 18 days off a month. I'd rather do 5 leg days than one 10 hour pond crossing, been there done that, got the hemroid.

Oh, yes we make tons of cash, and would like to make more so why don't the rest of you raise the bar?

SWA pilots defend their side because it is worth defending.

 

[Quimby]

I don't think it is jealousy, although plenty would love to have their pay. I think people continue to bash them because they are so defensive themselves, which can make them appear cocky. They don't like to acknowledge that they had to probably pay their own money to get a type for the chance to interview, which should be something the airline offers, not requires. And then there are the Southwest pilots who deny they have multiple leg trips. We all know by enlarge, that is not true. All of my WN friends here in HOU have very busy trips, although they do have big chunks of days off too. I think they are too defensive, without embracing who they really are.

G.L. Jr. has spoken.

 

[Caveman]

The thing that annoys me about SWA pilots is some of them don't acknowledge how much luck played into their current circumstances. Unless you were hired at SWA in the last 5 or 6 years there's no way you are going to convince the rest of us you simply made a shrewd career move by going to SWA. You got lucky. Plain and simple.

Prior to 2001 SWA was a stepping stone. It was a place to hang your hat until DAL/UAL/NWA/USAir called. Then 9/11 happened and because SWA's financial house was in order they thrived while the legacies perished. SWA's management deserves the credit for that, not the pilots. All the current CA's at SWA were working at a second tier carrier when circumstances beyond anybody's control drastically changed the landscape. Suddenly they start crowing about how great SWA is.

You got lucky. I don't begrudge you your good fortune but stop trying to pretend you had it all figured out.

 

[johnsonrod]

Is that considering the free bags? Thought not.

Yes, you must have a type after you are hired, not before.

Yes, SWA pilots fly multiple leg days, heaven forbid a pilot should fly, but we have 18 days off a month. I'd rather do 5 leg days than one 10 hour pond crossing, been there done that, got the hemroid.

Oh, yes we make tons of cash, and would like to make more so why don't the rest of you raise the bar?

SWA pilots defend their side because it is worth defending.

Taking a nap in a rest seat during a 10 hour flight is tough? Do you really sit in a seat for 10 hours in the cockpit? How about eating a nice meal? All of that sounds a lot better to me than doing 5 legs a day. I do that now at my regional, and it sux. It takes me a day or two after each 4 day trip to just relax. Besides, I have seen enough of Texas. You Southwest guys sure do think greatly of yourselves, though. I want to try something totally different than the regionals. Southwest is a bunch of the same, with better pay.

 

[pilotyip]

The thing that annoys me about SWA pilots is some of them don't acknowledge .........out how great SWA is.
You got lucky. I don't begrudge you your good fortune but stop trying to pretend you had it all figured out.

How nicely put, luck and timing count for a lot more in a career that do skill and desire. Many SWA pilots are very lucky

 

[Caveman]

How nicely put, luck and timing count for a lot more in a career that do skill and desire. Many SWA pilots are very lucky

My sarcasm meter is malfuntioning so I'm not sure where you were going with that. SWA pilots are skilled and driven. I'm just suggesting that a little nod to good fortune would be in order every now and then.

 

[scoreboardII]

Besides, I have seen enough of Texas.

I haven't seen Texas except from 41,000ft in 9 months (last PT). My last 6 months of trips averaged three leg days. Oh, yes, I'm overworked. All the way to the ********************ing bank.

I'm just suggesting that a little nod to good fortune would be in order every now and then

Make it so, I would have gone to whom ever hired me, enough said.

 

[waveflyer]

The thing that annoys me about SWA pilots is some of them don't acknowledge how much luck played into their current circumstances. Unless you were hired at SWA in the last 5 or 6 years there's no way you are going to convince the rest of us you simply made a shrewd career move by going to SWA. You got lucky. Plain and simple.

Prior to 2001 SWA was a stepping stone. It was a place to hang your hat until DAL/UAL/NWA/USAir called. Then 9/11 happened and because SWA's financial house was in order they thrived while the legacies perished. SWA's management deserves the credit for that, not the pilots. All the current CA's at SWA were working at a second tier carrier when circumstances beyond anybody's control drastically changed the landscape. Suddenly they start crowing about how great SWA is.

You got lucky. I don't begrudge you your good fortune but stop trying to pretend you had it all figured out.

do you know how many people I know have had their lives turned upside down bc they chased the greener grass?- in a variety of situations

there are plenty who had the choice and made the decision to stay- I'll tip my hat to providence- but to say there is no wisdom in sticking with the airline that has the best management, with the best culture, with the most room to grow- is being disingenuous also. For my part I stay bc I have those first two qualities and a question mark- the ones that stayed were more than lucky- they made a wise choice

 

[pilotyip]

My sarcasm meter is malfuntioning so I'm not sure where you were going with that. SWA pilots are skilled and driven. I'm just suggesting that a little nod to good fortune would be in order every now and then.

Could not agree more, I assume every pilot has skill and desire, some are lucky to get good jobs. The element of luck has then played a part in the hiring process. Prior to 2001 I saw pilots hired at SWA that we would not interview at JUS. After 2001, I saw fantastic pilots get turned down at SWA that were later hired at other majors including DAL, NWA, etc. Failing the blue fluid in the lav question, is poor way to define a pilot's skill. I think the SWA hiring guys have become a little full of themselves. Before 2001 they were more like the middle and lower airlines recruiting at the shows, fun to be around, joking about who they were, and just having fun, after 2001, they were more like Plato from DAL. Only an observation from interacting with the recruiters over a 10 year period.

 

[scoreboardII]

they were more like Plato from DAL

Thats because they knew they could get away with it. Watch when the next round of hiring starts and pilots realize upgrades at SWA will be 20 years down the road. Intriguing to 30 year olds, but the 40 year old and above crowd will shy away and probably go commuter.

 

[General Lee]

G.L. Jr. has spoken.

There you go, it looks like I now have a son! FANTASTIC. Many people think the same way as I do, and that makes you upset.

Anyways, it is easy to bash the SWA pilots because they take themselves SOOOOOO seriously, and they think that EVERYONE wants what they have. Sure, higher pay would be great, but not what they do. Some people don't care, others do. I don't want to fly a regional with great pay. I want options in the planes I fly, and the places I fly. They can't offer that. I didn't pay for my training, which still goes on even though THEY ARE SO PROFITABLE. They take advantage of newhires with the pay for training scheme. And they fly to a lot of places I never want to see, ever. But other than that, I bet they are a bunch of swell guys who enjoy their mostly fun stews (getting older though, look at DAL) and a current good relationship with their management, even though they are not trusted to fly INTL flights by that same management. That's the way I see it. Pre-9-11 SWA Captains were leaving for UAL, only to be furloughed eventually. As others have stated above, after 9-11 they got lucky, but they just will never have the options that most healthy legacies have, and that makes them defensive. 5 leg days will always be around at SWA, and not everyone wants to do that as they get older.

And you have to remember, this board is all in fun. Don't take it too seriously. I don't.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Thats because they knew they could get away with it. Watch when the next round of hiring starts and pilots realize upgrades at SWA will be 20 years down the road. Intriguing to 30 year olds, but the 40 year old and above crowd will shy away and probably go commuter.

"go commuter"
really?

Seriously?

No, I'm serious- are you SERIOUS?
Honestly, come on now.

I mean....really?


Sound like a guy who's never been at a commuter. I've never seen a 4th stripe that paid a mortgage all by itself

 

[pilotyip]

And you have to remember, this board is all in fun. Don't take it too seriously. I don't.


Bye Bye--General Lee

there is a glimer of reality

 

[BE200drvr]

It has nothing to do with the employees, I think they are great people and are very lucky. The problem is the companies approach to business is absolute cost minimalism...Do not confuse this with profit maximization. In other words SWA analyzes routes for maximum capacity increase on a slim margin. It may be the best in terms of airlines but that's because of such controlled costs. This is called the Southwest effect. If an airline is charging 20 cents a mile, SWA will go into an area and charge 12 cents a mile.

The problem with this approach is that the model assumes exponential growth if you do not raise fares. Simply put SWA will have to raise fares considerably to remain profitable as other airlines match SW prices. This is why SWA load factors have remained consistent over the years. If SW is allowed to grow untamed this is a good thing for pilots, as they pay the best salaries now. However, such growth is physically impossible, which is why, I have said SW will be bankrupt by 2009 if it continues on its current course. They would need over 1000 737's by 2009 to avoid it. They could raise fares and risk the capacity drop if other airlines do not match. Fuel going up in price would also help SW.

Did you mean 2019 or some other year? Just curious why you thought that was the year??

I stay pretty neutral, however, your post seems to be pretty innacurate in respect to your numbers.

I should point out that SW is making money this year, SW made money last year and the advance bookings look great again next year.

One thing you can be sure about is oil will go up. Gold will go up and the value of the US dollar will go down. But for the next two years SW will make money, making your bankruptcy prediction false.

 

[begsby]

10 pages......really?

 

[redflyer65]

I don't want to fly a regional with great pay. I want options in the planes I fly, and the places I fly.


Bye Bye--General Lee

So BWI-SAN is regional now? Wow, talk about arrogant.

Speaking of regionals, coming through Detroit and there was a line up 19 planes deep for take off....17 of those were Delta regional jets, the other two?

Spirit and Continental (not one mainline DL aircraft)

Funny stuff.

 

[General Lee]

So BWI-SAN is regional now? Wow, talk about arrogant.

Speaking of regionals, coming through Detroit and there was a line up 19 planes deep for take off....17 of those were Delta regional jets, the other two?

Spirit and Continental (not one mainline DL aircraft)

Funny stuff.

The problem is, you don't get off in SAN, you contine onto SJC or SMF. That is the problem. NO THANKS. And, in DTW, I bet you saw a lot of Comair RJs. Well, half of them will be gone by next year. Is that fast enough for ya? And do you think there aren't banks that have mostly mainline jets? How about flights to Europe, or Asia nonstop from DTW? Where do you go from DTW? I bet STL and BWI. Enjoy that.



Bye Bye---General Lee