Why Do People Bash Swa?

[FlyBoeingJets]

SWA has reached absolute minimal cost. There is absolutely no way to reduce costs at SWA other than through bankruptcy.

The legacies have restructured their costs to compete at the break even level of SW.

This doesn't mean SW will ever go into debt, but quite the contrary. SW will remain probably break even if it maintains its current growth. The problem is the company will be devalued if it can't maintain the ROI the investors expect.

At that point SW will will have significant assets (after the stock slide), be virtually debt free, and be heavily undervalued. This will make it a sitting duck to investors trying to disassemble the company. To protect itself, SW will have to become legacy like in debt or take the company private. The best process to do this is through bankruptcy in my opinion.

Good response. I will have to look at the next quarter's reports to figure out if the legacies have gotten their costs down far enough. Not convinced of that one yet. But it has gotten close enough that the international route premiums make up the difference. I'll agree with you that legacy profit will be even with SWA in 2007 and may be even better than SWA in 2008 when the hedges are almost gone. Earnings issues at Airtran and JetBlue tell us a lot about 2007 LCC trends. But that has always been the case in good times. Great profits at Legacies and pretty good at SWA.

SWA stock is already undervalued. So your prediction is already right. If it goes down further, without drops in other airline stocks, I would definitely expect some Walstreet money flowing into the stock. Not to run it, but to speculate on the stock recovery. Breaking it apart for the assets...I haven't thought of that one. The 737-700s are worth a pretty penny.

I can't imagine the company not buying back stock with excess cash before the value of the stock gets low enough for an asset play. But who has $4 Billion lying around to buy up 50% of LUV stock if it goes down to $10 shr??

BK to fix costs??? That is going to be impossible unless the company is showing losses, is mortgaged to the hilt and can't get new money (loans) to continue. You can't just go BK because you don't like your employees anymore. The lawsuits would be incredible. The payouts for terminated promises would not be worth the expense. Even in Delta's weakened state everyone due retirement monies is getting some sort of settlement.

By your reasoning AA and CAL should go into BK right now!!

We'll see who is right in '09

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Apparently there is a better option for SWA and its investors. Herb Kelleher is now on the board of directors for the federal reserve. Looks like he will be there long enough to protect SWA from a LBO while it buys back its stock. Perhaps the company is being taken private? This will allow SWA to restructure without the use of bankruptcy. I didn't see that coming, I guess that was the secret plan. I have to say their management may be better than I give them credit for.

 

[:-)]

Six pages and no one has given the correct answer.

People bash SWA because of SWA's pilot applicant rejection history, specifically because of the way in which they seem to randomly choose pilots. Right or wrong, that's the underlying reason for the bashing on this board. UAL, AMR, etc went through about the same amount of applicants to find successes, but in those cases, the bar was pretty well defined. For SWA, who the hedoublehockeysticks knows. We all know great people who get hired at SWA, and equally great people who get rejected by SWA. Once the average internet bulletin board participant gets a handle on what it takes to succeed at SWA, and begins to understand why certain people get rejected instead of having to wonder "why that great guy" got rejected; the bashing will diminish.

As long as SWA's rejection criteria appears to be smoke and mirrors over substance, the rejectees will continue to stir the pot.

 

[Quimby]

Apparently there is a better option for SWA and its investors. Herb Kelleher is now on the board of directors for the federal reserve. Looks like he will be there long enough to protect SWA from a LBO while it buys back its stock. Perhaps the company is being taken private? This will allow SWA to restructure without the use of bankruptcy. I didn't see that coming, I guess that was the secret plan. I have to say their management may be better than I give them credit for.

sounds like you've got it all figured out.

 

[Flopgut]

I am not fond of what deregualtion has done to airline customer expectations. The cost of airline tickets are expected to be the cheapest part of a vacation or business trip. No where in our lives as consumers are we finding a similiar pricing phenomenon except maybe in the cost of food.

Deregulation has produced only one real winner: SWA.

I like SWA people fine for the most part, just frustrated/disapointed about what the company has done.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I have to say their management may be better than I give them credit for.

Gee...34 years of consistent profits....through different recessions, Oil embargo, through the ATC strike, 9/11... paying out profit sharing to their employees even though they had been shut down for 3 days...employees that don't want to see their CEO gone...a financial record unequaled by any other competitor in this industry, and the management "may be" better than you give them credit for?

It obviously takes a lot to satisfy some people...

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I am not fond of what deregualtion has done to airline customer expectations.

I like SWA people fine for the most part, just frustrated/disapointed about what the company has done.

Since deregulation, more people have flown and are still flying...at your airline too. Basically deregulation allowed each and every airline to operate wherever they wanted to...and they could charge whatever they wanted to...some had a good business plan to deal with it....and some didn't ( Braniff). Some already knew how to compete...and some had to learn...and some never got it. Competition ( in all it's forms) is good...good for the soul of a company, it's employees and most importantly, the customer.

Did you know that since the repeal of the Wright (Wrong) Amendment, the Dallas Morning News has had numerous stories about how ridership has increased at BOTH DFW and DAL, and how the fares have changed to benefit the Customer. As if this is big news? Heck, I figured this was gonna happen all along.

Also, today, one of the airlines serving DAL announced that they are pulling all their MD-80's out of the DAL market....just going to RJ's now, and reducing the number of seats in that market. Think that VP of Marketing should get a bonus this year? Betcha he does....

I really hope that you are not one of those pilots who would, rather not have college students, grandparents on fixed incomes, and military folks, travel on your airline. Merely because they bought a discounted ticket. If they did, do you want them to come back and fly on your airline?

IF you really have a problem with how much your airline charges for a ticket, call your VP of Marketing....let him know what your concerns are...tell us what he says.

Remember, competition is a good thing...if, and only if, you have a plan for it. Is there a plan you are not happy with?

Tejas

 

[Flopgut]

Since deregulation, more people have flown and are still flying...at your airline too. Basically deregulation allowed each and every airline to operate wherever they wanted to...and they could charge whatever they wanted to...some had a good business plan to deal with it....and some didn't ( Braniff). Some already knew how to compete...and some had to learn...and some never got it. Competition ( in all it's forms) is good...good for the soul of a company, it's employees and most importantly, the customer.

Did you know that since the repeal of the Wright (Wrong) Amendment, the Dallas Morning News has had numerous stories about how ridership has increased at BOTH DFW and DAL, and how the fares have changed to benefit the Customer. As if this is big news? Heck, I figured this was gonna happen all along.

Also, today, one of the airlines serving DAL announced that they are pulling all their MD-80's out of the DAL market....just going to RJ's now, and reducing the number of seats in that market. Think that VP of Marketing should get a bonus this year? Betcha he does....

I really hope that you are not one of those pilots who would, rather not have college students, grandparents on fixed incomes, and military folks, travel on your airline. Merely because they bought a discounted ticket. If they did, do you want them to come back and fly on your airline?

IF you really have a problem with how much your airline charges for a ticket, call your VP of Marketing....let him know what your concerns are...tell us what he says.

Remember, competition is a good thing...if, and only if, you have a plan for it. Is there a plan you are not happy with?

Tejas

Oh, come on! Other airlines [legacies] have some bargain ticket prices too. And, of course, everyone welcomes senior citizens and military families. It's not too much to ask a customer to put in a little effort at finding a deal. Your airline makes ALL tickets WAY too cheap. I walked by a SWA gate the other night in OAK and it smell like a barnyard! Standards at a fast food joint would be too much for these folks to get served. Sadly, they're more than welcome at the airport these days. Thanks SWA. Look, it's not wrong to have standards. And you know what's amazing? This is not the case in (for instance) South and Central America, the supposed third world. People are clean, compliant and respectful even in places like Nicaragua.

Now the deregulation thing...don't get me started. If every airline would have been able to fly exactly where they wanted to fly, SWA would not be in business. It's almost as though, some strange conspiracy has been implemented to keep SWA strong. I know that sounds nutty and I'm not 100% serious, but think about it? Without SWA, deregulation would be a total failure on all accounts.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

I walked by a SWA gate the other night in OAK and it smell like a barnyard!

What a coincidence !!! I walked by a CAL gate that same night ...and it smelled like the lavs hadn't been dumped...maybe it's an OAK thing...not an airline thing...

Tejas

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Without SWA, deregulation would be a total failure on all accounts.

As I recall, SWA was flying a few years before deregulation became law. When the deregulation arguements were happening....only 2 airlines supported the idea....SWA and UAL...seems they both had a plan...the others were dragged kicking and screaming to the dance.

Hey look...if you don't like what SWA has supposedly done to this industry, write to your congressman, you know, the one that voted in favor of the Wright (Wrong) Amendment compromise....want re-regulation of the industry? Again, write your congressman...it'll never get settled on these boards.

Tejas

 

[jtm2222]

For me it's that darned Shamoo paint scheme on one of their jets. Twenty years ago when I went to Sea World that fat bastard ate my sister and had the nerve to splash the rest of my family as he was doing it. Umm, hello Sea World and SWA... it's called a "killer whale" for a reason. Let's not make his image into stuffed animals and toys all while misleading the general public. That's how people die.

After that incident I will bash anybody or anything that celebrates that friggin whale!

That is some funny sh.t

 

[bugchaser]

The legacies have restructured their costs to compete at the break even level of SW.

That may or may not be true. However, there is nowhere for legacy costs to go but up. How long will pilot groups and others keep working for these reduced wages. When labor starts yelling for pay increases, costs will increase to higher levels. Not to mention most of the legacy carriers are in need of updating their fleets. The legacy carriers have found their low cost point, but it is not sustainable. Lower costs have to be found through efficiencies, not by screwing over your employees, the public, and whoever else will stand for it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Just curious why some people bash SWA, List your reason.

Every airline gets bashed. Every one. All of them. The whole lot. Individually and collectively.

The simple reason is it's a chat forum. There are no minimum IQ standards to participate (See also "SWA/FO"). There is also a wide range of insults tolerated by the mods (See also "The last line I just typed")

We've all heard that a million monkeys at a million keyboards could produce the complete works of Shakespeare; now, thanks to FlightInfo, we know that ain't true.

 

[SWA/FO]

ouch....

As long as SWA's rejection criteria appears to be smoke and mirrors over substance, the rejectees will continue to stir the pot.

attitude, culture and you have to bring your A game.

 

[Flopgut]

What a coincidence !!! I walked by a CAL gate that same night ...and it smelled like the lavs hadn't been dumped...maybe it's an OAK thing...not an airline thing...

Tejas

I'll agree, OAK is pretty nasty. However, filthy lavs would be fragrant as a spring day compared to your boarding area. It was a freak show. Spare us the "we fly delightful grandparents, and fresh faced college students" BS. You know as well as I do there are as many crackheads, bums and vagrants. Some people don't need to be at the airport.

Let's call this thread what it really is. It's not a "let's defend poor little SWA airlines" thread. It's the same bunch of SWA folks who like to use any opportunity to boast, brag and chest pound about how some truely awful events that hurt most airlines, helped make theirs better. Happens over and over on here.