Who has left ASA for SkyWest?

[SKYWRJGUY]

Boyd is something of a legend...mostly phantom however. We tend to see his writings simply roll with the current trends and provide little in the way of future prediction or real substansive value via research; the above post is written like it's a lecture to a college aviation class, not to industry insiders or people of influence. I've studied a lot of business and finance, among other things, and I've never even heard of the terms "competitive value" or "airline value"--why would United have used those in the past when they are seemingly only in Mr. Boyd's own consultant-buzzword dictionary. At least he would have had a little more respect if he used "enterprise value", but suggesting the use of shareholder value is new and different for UAL (or any public company), simply sounds like good writing. If he had any wits, he would have also discovered shareholder value is his "stock certificate"s outstanding times their price (capitalization) MINUS liabilities; it's not simply a measure of stock price. In fact, you can increase shareholder value many ways even with a stagnant stock, notably by paying down or refinancing debt; sometimes asset sales can create more cash than the asset was worth on books, especially if there is a lot of intangible value in it. Don't forget, consultancy is about salesmanship, not necessarily about having the right answers; the fact that Boyd gets quoted all the time only reinforces his perceived validity. He's a see-sawer....and probably a consultant to Frontier

I am reminded of the UPS commercial a few years back where the external consultants came in and gave a big presentation and the hiring company said, "that is great, let's implement the plan!"---to which the consultants said, "we only suggest changes, we don't help implement them".

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave-

We know that you want to staple ASA pilots to the bottom should there be a merger. However; you fail to accept the fact that Skywest Inc bought us, not Skywest Airlines. There is a huge difference. It is this difference that makes a merger of some sort necessary for both you and me. Without it, you may find that your future is not so bright.

What say you?

I say you're illiterate and unable to comprehend my posts. Or the first word in your alias is describing your current state.

I talk about preserving career expectations and you think I'm talking about a staple job.

I'm quite aware ASA was puchased by the parent company of SkyWest.

You seem to think I'm opposed to an integration.

Where are you getting all these ideas from? Problems distinguishing my posts from others? I'll give you a hint. My avatar has the cool amphib with the GG Bridge in the background. If you don't see the pretty airplane and the famous bridge it's someone else.

Go back and read my posts.
Then reply.

 

[Shobra]

Ok flame on but... ASA was an Acquisition by SkyWest Inc, made possible on the backs of SkyWest pilots. NOT a merger.

Therefore, Fences and(drum roll) ..... Staple!!!!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave,

Not sure what I did to earn your scorn, but I'll chalk it up to the same ol' 'if you're not pro-union you must be stupid' attitude of many (not all) of the OC.

Who says I worked for Mesa? I never did. Who says I just started here? I didn't. I have worked for two other airlines, one ALPA one not. Before that I flew in different capacities before coming to the airlines.

I have no idea how you can take what I posted and spew back what you did.

And since you are a CA with the requisite time, why don't you apply to an ALPA airline and move on?

I love the tired old crap from the Unionistas that says you have to be here at SkyWest for some period of time (how long is that, by the way?) before your opinion counts.

Sorry N but I was responding to a variety of your posts on this and the forum where you can't hide behind a screen name. The response wasn't appropriate for that post where you just sort of lobbed an underhanded jab at me.

I admit I could be mistaken that you worked for Mesa. I can't recall which regional you said you worked for. Sounds like you've bounced around a number of jobs. I like to keep the number of indoc classes to a minimum. Hopefully your current job will work out longer than the last few.

Nobody said you can't have an opinion if you're new. It's all in how you express those opinions.

I used to feel the same way you did about unions. Funny how time changes people.

Oh and I hate to break this to you N, but having a bunch of PIC turbine doesn't mean you automatically get job offers from the airline of your choice. Sometimes you can't even get an interview. Go figure. 10,000 guys trying to get a 100 jobs and they don't have a chance to interview everyone. A lot of guys you fly with have had apps in with majors for years. One of the symptoms of SJS is thinking that you will be off to the majors as soon as you hit 1000 PIC. If you're not picky about where you work you can move on pretty quick. But if there's only one or two airlines you want to work for the wait can be long or even indefinite. I already passed on one opportunity to move on because I hate commuting and didn't want to spend 3.5 years to get caught up financially. Mainly it was the commuting.

Plus I believe in trying to make your workplace better rather than just hoping for a better offer. I could easily stay put for quite some time.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Ok flame on but... ASA was an Acquisition by SkyWest Inc, made possible on the backs of SkyWest pilots. NOT a merger.

Therefore, Fences and(drum roll) ..... Staple!!!!

As appealing as that thought might be do you really want 1800 really pissed off coworkers that would like to burn the place down?

The best integrations occur when neither group is overly pleased with the results. Some type of integration where everyone stays in the same percentile could work along with a few years of fences.

 

[katanabob]

SLC was a small outstation for ASA, was it not? Given the small size of the base was it a reasonable career expectation to spend a career in SLC as a captain for a large number of ASA pilots?

SLC topped out at 15 aircraft and 80 crews, IIRC.

ASA hasn't done outstation basing since MCN closed.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I'm not sure what's funnier, this:

I knew it wouldn't last!

Checking in on a daily baisis and not posting is not retiring! But nobody ever accused you of being truthful! BTW, I knew you couldn't stay away!

or, this:

I'll come briefly out of retirement to even up the arguement a little bit.
...
~~~^~~~ (going immediately back into retirement)

You guys have a more dysfunctional relationship than me and my last stalking victim.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I say you're illiterate and unable to comprehend my posts.

Anytime you'd like to compare IQ's or academic/business credentials - just let me know. Until then...

I believe you have stated, in the past, that you believe that ASA pilots should go to the bottom since you bought us. Am I confused? It seems that you have changed your opinion.

 

[Shobra]

As appealing as that thought might be do you really want 1800 really pissed off coworkers that would like to burn the place down?

Lots of Extremely Pissed off Pilots that have been with the company for lots of years moving up that pay scale. YES I think this is what (not me) Skywest management wants. What better way to get those expensive guys to quit. So they can be replaced with a first year FO with no profit sharing or any of that other crap for at least 2 more years.

(funny how the skywest chest thumper guys never mention that you don't get any profit sharing until after 2 years).

 

[SkyNation]

(funny how the skywest chest thumper guys never mention that you don't get any profit sharing until after 2 years).

ATTENTION!!!!!!!

SKYWEST PILOTS DON'T GET OPERATIONAL REWARDS UNTIL AFTER 1 YEAR. THE FINANCIAL REWARDS PORTION COMES AFTER 2 YEARS.

how was that?

I will get the financial reward for the first time next quarter, and yet from what I'm told by ASA pilots, my pay, benefits, and overall QOL is better for being here rather than there even without it.

It was posted by something on the other bashing thread, but, honestly, I don't know anyone here that wants ill toward ya'll. Most, if not all of us never wanted SkyWest to buy ASA in the first place. We don't want your planes, routes, your base in ATL, etc.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Anytime you'd like to compare IQ's or academic/business credentials - just let me know. Until then...

I believe you have stated, in the past, that you believe that ASA pilots should go to the bottom since you bought us. Am I confused? It seems that you have changed your opinion.

I'm not much for comparing IQ's. Childish if you ask me.

As far as business credentials go I've owned a small corpration in the past and I currently have a side business that puts more money in my pocket than flying does.

If you can find a post where I advocated a staple I'll give you $100. I have not edited or deleted any post in relation to that issue.

I anxiously await you coming up with proof or aplogizing for accusing me of being one of the idiots advocating stapling ASA pilots to the bottom of any list. Never have never will. It would be a disaster.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Sounds like a perfect solution to me. And the SkyWest guys and gals won't mind as long as your DOH is changed to the date SKYW bought you so your former parent company could stay in business.

If thats not a staple, what is?

But then he backs off immediately.

To me a staple is just as reasonable a solution as DOH. So yes there is some sarcasm there. I figure if an ASA guys pushes for DOH we should be pushing just as hard for a staple since neither is an equitable solution.

An equitable merger protocol would take these factors into account and preserve the all important career expectations.

1. Average ASA pilot is more senior than average SKYW pilot
2. SKYW pilots historically upgrade much faster than ASA pilots, in some cases less than 6 months and generally within 2 or 3 years

3. ASA was rescued from near certain bankruptcy
4. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of UAX flying
5. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of west coast bases
6. Prior to acquisition ASA pilots had no expectation of potential codeshare flying for partner other than DAL. SKYW actively bids for flying with other airlines according to SEC filed documents.

So an equitable merger protocol would not harm SKYW pilots the way a pure DOH merger would. An equitable merger protocol would force ASA pilots to make some sort of sacrifice in exchange for the new opportunties offered. In light of the fact that ASA would be bankrupt had they not been purchased by SKYW how can any reasonable person suggest that SKYW pilots be harmed in the aftermath of a merger?

Bottom line? The only fair way to merge the lists would be using some sort of ratio and fences.

Sounds like he'd make a good politician to me.


So far as DOH goes, aren't SW and ASA about the same age?

 

[VeeOne]

Who cares- Just stop the carpetbagger in St' George. We're being treated like a red headed step child anyways. Just keep the Skywest people on their side of the fence, and we'll stay on ours. Just my opinion.

 

[Splert]

What do you think?

Who has left SkyWest for a non-aviation career? Plenty.

:beer:

 

[DrunkIrishman]

Turkey shoot-

I guess I'll have to split that $100 with you.

Dave-

It is statements like that one that I was referring to. Also, glad for your success in your other endeavors. I, too, have run a successful bisuness in the past that made more than ASA (not that it's too hard to do that). IQ's are childish? I don't know what to tell you there. I would like to see you tone done your aggressiveness towards us at ASA is all. Sure we've got some rednecks, but you've got some...um....what do you guys have there anyway? We need to work together. Insulting us doesn't accomplish that.

 

[Turkey Shoot]

Turkey shoot-

I guess I'll have to split that $100 with you.

I'll PM you with instructions for my overseas account.

In the end, a merger of lists will benefit everyone. If the SkyWest guys truly believe that once ASA accepts a concessionary contract, they will not be next, they've been snowed. Money is number one and they'll be after SW next with the same threats of tranferring assets if a move is made to unionize after they cut your pay.

Count on it. Money first, employees second. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how it is though. Figure it out, it's been the trend in the rest of the industry. SkyWest is not insulated from this.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

When will you people learn to read?

Here's what I said taken right out of my post that you quoted:

"To me a staple is just as reasonable a solution as DOH. So yes there is some sarcasm there. I figure if an ASA guys pushes for DOH we should be pushing just as hard for a staple since neither is an equitable solution."

What part of "neither is an equitable solution" is so difficult to comprehend?

Does it really sound like I'm adovcating a staple or am I using the staple as a way to make the point that it's just as bad as DOH?

Did you really make it through high school?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I'm done on this thread.
If anyone really thinks I've advocated a staple PM me and I'll be happy to come up with some links that will help with your understanding of the use of sarcasm and analogies in writing.

 

[FDJ2]

ALPA merger policy never mentions DOH. The policy intends to preserve the career expectations of the pilot groups involved, not their DOH.

ALPA Administrative Manual:
1. The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

 

[VeeOne]

Turkey shoot-

. Sure we've got some rednecks, but you've got some...um....what do you guys have there anyway?

Some "Good Ole Boys" at ASA?? What sort of Demographic do you think we're going to cater to flying heavily into South Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana?? Hey, I take pride in the fact I'm a redneck- a professional one anyway.