What's the problem with GJ?!?!

[silver8]

Whether you fit under the definition of a SCAB is irrelevant. Once you are placed on the scab list, it does not really matter if you fit the definition or not. Some pilots take the list seriously, and I am not talking about jumpseating only. You don't think that some CP at 121 carriers keep a SCAB list? Guess what they do when they get applications from pilots on the SCAB list? And even if you slip by the CP and you get hired. Some check airmen keep a list as well, and guess what's gonna happen on your checkride? Your life is going to get much harder should one day your job at ************************* disappears.

 

[h25b]

Whether you fit under the definition of a SCAB is irrelevant. Once you are placed on the scab list, it does not really matter if you fit the definition or not. Some pilots take the list seriously, and I am not talking about jumpseating only. You don't think that some CP at 121 carriers keep a SCAB list? Guess what they do when they get applications from pilots on the SCAB list? And even if you slip by the CP and you get hired. Some check airmen keep a list as well, and guess what's gonna happen on your checkride? Your life is going to get much harder should one day your job at ************************* disappears.

The GJ pilots have not been, nor will they be placed on the ALPA Master Scab List...

 

[logolight]

The GJ pilots have not been, nor will they be placed on the ALPA Master Scab List...

ALPA does not publish scab lists because of the legal ramifications it carries. Scab lists are usually compiled and published by private individuals and distributed to whoever wants them. I've seen the Eastern and Freedom scab lists and there is a Go Jets scab list currently being compiled on the website that I mentioned in an earlier thread. It includes names and adresses of those currently on the Go Jets seniority list.

 

[h25b]

ALPA does not publish scab lists because of the legal ramifications it carries. Scab lists are usually compiled and published by private individuals and distributed to whoever wants them. I've seen the Eastern and Freedom scab lists and there is a GJs scab list currently being compiled on the website that I mentioned in an earlier thread. It includes names and adresses of those currently on the GJs seniority list.

I have no idea why, but something about how you guys like to blur the line by mis-defining a "Scab" really is aggravating. Last time I read the GJ List (for entertainment purposes) it even said on it that they WERE NOT scabs. You ARE either a scab or ARE NOT a scab. The GJ list is just a list... It's not a scab list. Of course there are those few (and I do mean FEW) pilots out there that will treat it as such. Furthermore, the GJ pilots HAVE NOT been added to the ALPA Master Scab List.

Please don't throw around terms you don't understand.

 

[theo]

Whether you fit under the definition of a SCAB is irrelevant. Once you are placed on the scab list, it does not really matter if you fit the definition or not. Some pilots take the list seriously, and I am not talking about jumpseating only. You don't think that some CP at 121 carriers keep a SCAB list? Guess what they do when they get applications from pilots on the SCAB list? And even if you slip by the CP and you get hired. Some check airmen keep a list as well, and guess what's gonna happen on your checkride? Your life is going to get much harder should one day your job at ************************* disappears.

What a bunch of hogwash...Just trying to use scare tactics to keep people from applying at Go-Jet, under the belief that will somehow work to keep them from filling classes. From everything I have heard that is not happening. Don't let this silliness stop you from applying at any airline including Go-Jet if you think you will qualify. Except for the same disguntled group of TSA pilots and the various assorted other ALPA lackeys on this board most people just don't give a SH...t about the whole issue. So apply where you want build time and move on it won't be a problem.

 

[BOOYA]

what other airlines fit into this scab category? any?

btw, I'm not calling gj a scab airline. don't know anthing about this, just trying to get some info.

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA does not publish scab lists because of the legal ramifications it carries.

This is not correct. ALPA has published SCAB lists in the past, and I'm sure will do the same in the future if it becomes necessary. The last time it was done was during the EAL strike in '89-'90. Several of the scumbag SCABs sued ALPA National for allowing the EAL MEC to publish the lists, and ALPA's right to publish these lists was upheld by the court.

That being said, the HoJets pseudo-scabs are not truly SCABs, so they won't be added to the master list. That isn't to say that lists aren't passed around, but they aren't on the SCAB list itself. The Freedumb pilots aren't on the master SCABlist either, but I and many other pilots carry a list of them and don't hesitate to check it whenever a Mesa pilot requests a jumpseat.

 

[logolight]

I have no idea why, but something about how you guys like to blur the line by mis-defining a "Scab" really is aggravating. Last time I read the GJ List (for entertainment purposes) it even said on it that they WERE NOT scabs. You ARE either a scab or ARE NOT a scab. The GJ list is just a list... It's not a scab list. Of course there are those few (and I do mean FEW) pilots out there that will treat it as such. Furthermore, the GJ pilots HAVE NOT been added to the ALPA Master Scab List.

Please don't throw around terms you don't understand.

I agree, they are not scabs as defined. But whether they're scabs or not, you're one of the only people on this message board who is defending them and I just don't know why that is.

 

[logolight]

This is not correct. ALPA has published SCAB lists in the past, and I'm sure will do the same in the future if it becomes necessary. The last time it was done was during the EAL strike in '89-'90. Several of the scumbag SCABs sued ALPA National for allowing the EAL MEC to publish the lists, and ALPA's right to publish these lists was upheld by the court.

That being said, the HoJets pseudo-scabs are not truly SCABs, so they won't be added to the master list. That isn't to say that lists aren't passed around, but they aren't on the SCAB list itself. The Freedumb pilots aren't on the master SCABlist either, but I and many other pilots carry a list of them and don't hesitate to check it whenever a Mesa pilot requests a jumpseat.

ALPA may have published a scab list at one time but it is my understanding that they will no longer publish them because of leagality issues. It's just what I heard. Check it out and let me know.

 

[logolight]

I think people are missunderstanding the issues involved with GJ's. GJ's is a deliberate and successful attempt to offer major carriers lower pay rates for express contracts. The main issue here is lower pay scales and poor work rules. As "alter ego" companies are allowed to grow, it increases the number of lower paid pilots and reduces the number of higher paid union pilots over time. This is the race to the bottom as we all know it. At the personal level, the issue is do you just want a job or are you willing to apply at higher paid airlines. That said, why is it O.K. for us to continue to drop our wages closer and closer to minimum wage? We've all worked hard for this opportunity so lets make sure we're compensated for it.

 

[Shrek]

Must be gettin tough over there at G j getting people to work for your POS airline. They are even getting the the so called pilots from there to try to pass the coolaid onto everybody else on this board.

You guys made a mistake and it will show in due time........

 

[h25b]

You guys made a mistake and it will show in due time........

It's gett'n tough everywhere fella. The biggest mistake we all made was getting in to aviation in the first place... Going to work at GJ is a minor mistake by comparison.

So if GJ closes down and they have to move on, so what ??? Like that's never happened before.

 

[smokey999]

.....

 

[Bankangle]

The whole d--- regional industry is embarrassing. The going on about TSA and GJ just highlights more of the immaturity and division of this segment of the industry.

I have seen it posted many times before on this subject. What goes around comes around. You get upset when GJ/TSA or who ever lose flying to a low cost alternative? Who do you think has been the low cost alternative for the vast amount of mainline flying that has dissappeared?

The regional industry is going to be if not already, the bulk of schedule flying employment. CAREER! No more just here until the mainline guys call me. As Sh-tty as i know it is at TSA and most other regionals you got bigger problems then trying to deter people from taking a job at GJ. THat agenda will not work.

 

[h25b]

Speak for yourself. If you feel it's such a big mistake.......Get out. Oh, and by the way, checking out flightinfo every day and posting thousands of times will make you a complete waste of space. Oops, already got that accomplished. (No offense to some of the diehards here that post relivent and non-biased information)

First of all it's "relevant" not "relivent" ... I'm not that big on spelling, but when trying to insult someone it's always better to at least seem more intelligent than the target of your anger... Second, (for at least the 3-4 time) I'm not trying to say that the GJ pilots are the best thing for the industry or situation. But the fact, and yes I know it's rare on the regionals' board, is that the GJ pilots are not scabs. Furthermore, I doubt those of them that are otherwise qualified will have a problem moving on to other airlines. Go ahead and read through the Master Scab List, it's got a ton of FedEx, UPS, Continental pilots on it. The GJ pilots aren't even on that list. You threatening them amounts to little more than a, "my daddy can beat up your daddy..."

You were eluding to the idea that my information is biased, for the record I don't work for TSA, GJ, or any other "regional" airline for that matter. Which I would think makes my opinions the most unbiased.

During my time here on this board I've helped about 4 complete strangers gain good paying, full-time positions and mailed out countless items free of charge to people that needed things that I no longer use (study materials, old headsets, pilot's manuals, etc)... I suppose you're probably the type that would try and sell an old Saab 340 manual you got for free rather than give it away. So I'll go on being a "waste of space" ... Coming from you I can't really take it too seriously I mean, really...

Here's the deal. I was charged with DUI. Went to court for the license hearing to fight the automatic license revocation. I won and they recinded the revocation, or overturned it, and refunded the fines I had to pay to get it back. I was offered a dry careless.(careless without any notation of alcohol) My DMV report just says "careless driving". I just had an interview at a regional. (I know this is the majors category, but I thought some of the people browsing here might have a good answer too.) Was asked over the phone, any alcohol driving offenses? I answered no. Asked any violations? I said I have a careless driving. On the application I checked that my drivers license has never been suspended or revoked. If by some reason the NDR screwed up and didn't remove the revocation, do you think this would come across as me lying? Also, even though the careless driving stemmed from a DUI, it is not an "alcohol offense". Do you think they would see it the same way. I was never asked about it in the interview, surprisingly.

I guess we all know why "relivent and non-biased information" is so important to you... My wife was nearly killed by drunk driver a few years ago. Just had yet another surgery last Christmas to remove one of the plates they used to put her arm back together.. Oh yeah, and we had to pay for the whole thing as well, because like a regional pilot he had no money and little insurance.. :angryfire

But I'm glad you got your license back and can be here to grace us all with your wealth of common sense and good judgement... With any luck you'll be successful at a regional airline interview and will be out terrorizing the skies, not just the roads. Evidently, an automobile isn't quite lethal enough for you... Gotta go now, my wife just woke up and it's time to go watch her dump that stuff in to her eye since the accident, oops, I mean attempted murder, severed her tear duct as well.

In case you're wondering, yes, you struck a nerve...

 

[flyboyzii]

Gosh!! I hope when they update the SCAB list that they spell my name correctly. But, please for the love of God be careful when you key my car. The paint is the only thing holding it together. I wouldn't want any spilled blood at my expense. My insurance is high enough the way it is.

You know, it seems to me that people like me get blamed for "bringing down the industry" I am a little sick of hearing it. I was going to apply for Skywest> I have many former students that fly there. But, they didn't pay for training so I said that I was not going to "bring down the industry" in that manner. Well, I missed that boat. G/J gives me an opportunity to:
1.) move on up in my career (the scab lists, threats etc... don't worry me)

2.) move back a little closer to my family and friends

3.) fly above the wx instead of IN it

......I have done my time flying around in the middle of the weather. Dealing with a severely underpowered A/C that will not climb at the mere whisper of the word "ice". Shooting approaches to minimums every single day for 3 weeks solid. I feel that I have paid my dues and am ready to move on. I don't feel that I am stepping on anyones toes to go after this job. Yes, it will be a huge paycut for me to do this. But, it would be a paycut at every single Regional out there. Has anyone ever thought that the Regionals are taking away flying from the Majors?? How do you think those guys feel?? They could say that ALL Regionals were/are bringing down the industry as a whole. Is it not taking away THEIR flying?? I have friends that do fly for the Majors and every single one of them told me to go for it!!! So, I am. There is no way anyone is going to make me feel guilty about it either. It's like I tell my current co-workers that are constantly complaining about having to fly (they generally "work" 30 hours a month) "If you don't like how you are being treated...go start your own airline/ 135 company." Maybe when I start my training I will do what I did to my current co-workers and bring a box of pacifiers and start handing them out when I hear all of the crying. It worked for them. They don't whine when I'm around anymore. I would love to make 100k a year. Hell, who wouldn't?? But, I love flying and the way the industry is today is just the way it is. If I don't go for this job, some other guy will. I stood my ground and didn't apply at Skywest and it got me nowhere. I'm not going to make that mistake again. This industry is full of ups and downs. Things are always changing and I feel that this job will enhance my Resume not put a smudge on it. Whew, I feel better now.

 

[logolight]

As Sh-tty as i know it is at TSA and most other regionals you got bigger problems then trying to deter people from taking a job at GJ. THat agenda will not work.

That is exactly the attitude that is creating our "bigger problems". When airlines like Go Jets keep turning up it damages the opportunity for everyone else to benefit from union pay scales and work rules. It's letting operations like Go Jets continue to operate and grow that will eventualy push the better paid union carriers aside and employ minimum wage pilots with only 8 days off per month.

Why shouldn't this be a priority for us who want the integrity of our jobs protected?

 

[jetfo]

This thread gets more amusing every day. It won't be long until IBT or ALPA will welcome the GJets into their fold, just like Freedom. What will you guys be calling the pilots that get hired after that date? A little less non-scab than the non-scabs that are there now?!?

And, to you TSA guys out there, let's remember that Trans States Holding and your weak scope language, along with your unwillingness to come to an agreement with your employer has led you to your current circumstance.

 

[av8rnate]

I don't feel that I am stepping on anyones toes to go after this job. Yes, it will be a huge paycut for me to do this. But, it would be a paycut at every single Regional out there.

I typically don't post on this sight, but I felt this deserved a response. I understand everyone is looking out for themselves, so is life, but there are lots of more educated ways to do it. When I came to TSA we were growing like gang busters and I was excited that I found a descent place to fly. I too was a freight dog and did my homework before applying to the regionals. TSA management finally pulled the last straw in the pilots patience and we've said enough is enough. I consider myself middle of the road, neither a big union or management buff. With a little bit of homework, it's not hard for people to figure out what the tsa pilot group is trying to do. Our goal would be easily feasible (a slightly better letter of agreement) if pilots would stick together. Why support an airline that is kicking a pilot group in the teeth when you don't have to. There are other "better" options, Chaut., Exp. Jet etc. Despite what you would like to think, you are stepping on toes. For example, my (and hundreds of other tsa fo's) upgrade. I was suppose to be captain in just a couple months a couple months ago. Now since you and others are supporting g jet, management has no need to talk to us anymore. It looks like the right seat for me for a few more years. Oh, and about the pay. I make more than you doing the same job in a smaller airplane. Have fun with that and try letting your conscience be your guide.

 

[ground stop]

flyboyzii,

You sound like you have the experience to go anywhere you want, so why accept a job from a company that you know has a poor (deserved or not, although mostly deserved) reputation among the pilot group? there are plenty of other companies out there who fly the same equipment but with better contracts. why would someone spend 3-5yrs in hell with crap benifits when you can spend 3-5yrs in hell with good benifits somewhere else? make sure you wear your gj id with pride.

 

[Shrek]

Here I go.........

 

[Shrek]

"I have done my time flying around in the middle of the weather. Dealing with a severely underpowered A/C that will not climb at the mere whisper of the word "ice". Shooting approaches to minimums every single day for 3 weeks solid. I feel that I have paid my dues and am ready to move on. I don't feel that I am stepping on anyones toes to go after this job. Yes, it will be a huge paycut for me to do this. But, it would be a paycut at every single Regional out there. Has anyone ever thought that the Regionals are taking away flying from the Majors?? How do you think those guys feel?? They could say that ALL Regionals were/are bringing down the industry as a whole. Is it not taking away THEIR flying?? I have friends that do fly for the Majors and every single one of them told me to go for it!!! So, I am. There is no way anyone is going to make me feel guilty about it either. It's like I tell my current co-workers that are constantly complaining about having to fly (they generally "work" 30 hours a month) "If you don't like how you are being treated...go start your own airline/ 135 company." Maybe when I start my training I will do what I did to my current co-workers and bring a box of pacifiers and start handing them out when I hear all of the crying. It worked for them. They don't whine when I'm around anymore. I would love to make 100k a year. Hell, who wouldn't?? But, I love flying and the way the industry is today is just the way it is. If I don't go for this job, some other guy will. I stood my ground and didn't apply at Skywest and it got me nowhere. I'm not going to make that mistake again. This industry is full of ups and downs. Things are always changing and I feel that this job will enhance my Resume not put a smudge on it. Whew, I feel better now........................"

WOW........it must be nice knowing that you are hated by the majority of professional pilots out there (Majors and Regionals). To know that this airline will be your last stop in your ever so short career. No matter how much dues you think you have paid.......which is not much even if your time is correct on your bio. To think that you have the right to stomp on other peoples careers and families to supercede their seniority is selfish and arrogant. BUT......you have made your choice and I hope you can stomach it because the TSA pilots can NOT and will not back down from this fight. In the end you will either quit like a pansy after you are put on our seniority list or you will stay and hate the rest of your professional career as you see the TSA pilots who have ACTUALLY paid their dues get better jobs and can walk down the terminal without their ID's covered or backwards. Unfortunately there will probably be your kind around forever.........eager to stab anybody in the back to further yourself instead of playing by the rules. Remember even the lil white stuff on top of chickensh*t is still sh*t.

 

[temcgrew]

I have paid my dues and am ready to move on

And do you think G-jet is the place to do that?

Remember, NO contract: Heck working for Hulas at TSA with a contract is still bottom of the barrel lifestyle.

And yes, the mark is on you when you work there. Do you really want to walk around the airports with your Company I.D. in your pocket, or spend a two hour turn cowering in the CRJ700 while your flight attendant goes and gets the burgers?

Whatever...

As for the weak scope language, sure it was weak. No one knew that a holding company existed at the time!

The logic of you people trying to blame the g-jet problem on the TSA pilots is a pathetic attempt of shifting the attention. Do you think you can trust a management team that would do something like this with your future?

 

[logolight]

......I have done my time flying around in the middle of the weather. Dealing with a severely underpowered A/C that will not climb at the mere whisper of the word "ice". Shooting approaches to minimums every single day for 3 weeks solid. I feel that I have paid my dues and am ready to move on. I don't feel that I am stepping on anyones toes to go after this job. Yes, it will be a huge paycut for me to do this. But, it would be a paycut at every single Regional out there. Has anyone ever thought that the Regionals are taking away flying from the Majors?? How do you think those guys feel?? They could say that ALL Regionals were/are bringing down the industry as a whole. Is it not taking away THEIR flying?? I have friends that do fly for the Majors and every single one of them told me to go for it!!! So, I am. There is no way anyone is going to make me feel guilty about it either. It's like I tell my current co-workers that are constantly complaining about having to fly (they generally "work" 30 hours a month) "If you don't like how you are being treated...go start your own airline/ 135 company." Maybe when I start my training I will do what I did to my current co-workers and bring a box of pacifiers and start handing them out when I hear all of the crying. It worked for them. They don't whine when I'm around anymore. I would love to make 100k a year. Hell, who wouldn't?? But, I love flying and the way the industry is today is just the way it is. If I don't go for this job, some other guy will. I stood my ground and didn't apply at Skywest and it got me nowhere. I'm not going to make that mistake again. This industry is full of ups and downs. Things are always changing and I feel that this job will enhance my Resume not put a smudge on it. Whew, I feel better now.

This sounds like flaim bait to me.

 

[Lear70]

What will you guys be calling the pilots that get hired after that date?

If I'm on the hiring panel, I'd call them "passed-over" for another, more morally- and ethically- inclined applicant.

 

[theo]

If I'm on the hiring panel, I'd call them "passed-over" for another, more morally- and ethically- inclined applicant.

But...you arent on the hiring panel...so your opinion doesnt count.

 

[Lear70]

How do you know?

Difficult to see... the future is.

 

[flyer172r]

And, to you TSA guys out there, let's remember that Trans States Holding and your weak scope language, along with your unwillingness to come to an agreement with your employer has led you to your current circumstance.

We can't come to an agreement with someone who won't talk to us. Management has avoided an actual negotiation every step of the way on this issue, they made one single offer that was a slap in the face to everyone, and then said, "that's it." It is not our unwillingness to come to an agreement, it is their unwillingness to work with their own employees.

 

[theo]

We can't come to an agreement with someone who won't talk to us. Management has avoided an actual negotiation every step of the way on this issue, they made one single offer that was a slap in the face to everyone, and then said, "that's it." It is not our unwillingness to come to an agreement, it is their unwillingness to work with their own employees.

Sorry but you are not making sense. If you voted on something, then you had negotiations. How do you think an agreement was reached? How many times do you see MEC's just blindly putting out company proposals to a vote without a negotiation? My recollection from talking to friends at TSA was not only was there a negotiation but it even included ALPA National as an arbitrator. You guys had your chance and apparently listened to those who told you there is ALWAYS another offer after a no vote. Too bad that is not always true. I think you really need to question your leaders because it looks like you guys keep getting bad advice.

 

[Fblowjets]

Why do you bash ALPA and our lovely TSA management to make yourself feel beter? Every regional is gonna be hurt by the lowlifes at HoJet, maybe not right away, but soon. So my question is, Why not back the guys at TSA to improve all our working conditions?