What's the problem with GJ?!?!

[jetfo]

Hey Richard aka Lear70:

You're opinion is in the minority.

Most of the rest of us fully believe that a pilot who goes to work for G0 Jets FULLY KNOWING what they have done and why the company exists DESERVES EVERYTHING THEY GET AND MORE.

Most of the rest of us fully believe that if a pilot who DOES NOT know any better goes to work there and is educated by one of the TSA brethren or some other person IN A CALM, INTELLIGENT, BUT DIRECT MANNER with FACTS to back them up but that pilot STILL continues to work there, that pilot DESERVES EVERYTHING THEY GET AND MORE.

I personally believe the TSA pilots should hang around the hotel where the G0 Jets pilots are in training and look them up their 2nd or 3rd night while studying and clue them in on the facts. At least then the TSA pilots can say they made an honest effort to educate those pilots and none of those pilots can claim "they didn't know".

What they are doing is just ONE SMALL LEVEL above being a Scab. You're intelligent enough to understand that, by accepting employment at a company that is being used to whipsaw another group into a concessionary contract, a G0 Jets pilot is DIRECTLY affecting the livelihood of another pilot.

That is morally and ethically WRONG.

I know many people these days don't care about "right and wrong", especially if doing the "right" thing would delay their career goals, but that's NOT AN EXCUSE to keep doing it.

As a result, there are repercussions. I do my small part.

G0 Jets pilots: if you are ever jumpseating on a NWA CRJ flown by Pinnacle, make sure you ask the gate agent who the crew is. If you see "Richard Murphy" on the release as the Captain, you might as well go find a different way to where you're going, as the animosity caused by you being on the aircraft constitutes a safety of flight issue.

I keep a copy of the Freedom and G0 Jets lists in my PDA in the same list as the Eastern guys (what few are left). I'm not the only one...

Don't you have anything better to do than weigh down your flight bag with lists of pilots, most of them retired or dead to carry out this rediculous vendetta that doesn't even concern you.

I know you have the list on your PDA, good for you.

If I were you I'd be more concerned with how your friends at NWA, i.e Steenland, is srewing you with the upcoming furloughs. Or perhaps staying off of Terry Meffords radar screen.

Working in this industry is difficult enough without you and your compatriots at TSA adding to the misery.

Go ahead deny some poor smuck your jumpseat that just needs a job to feed his family and is trying to get home to spend the little time he has off with them.

If that really makes you feel good.

The guys that went to work there are not scabs! There is no strike! They did not cross any picket line! And most importantly, they did not take anyone's job!

Unlike the scab mechanics at NWA! Do you let those scabs non-rev on your flights ?!?!?!?! I bet they're on your plane more often then you know.

You should focus your energy and anger on the folks that are bringing this malaise to this industry. Incompetent and or clever airline management that plays pilots off against each other, with their helpful accomplices at ALPA national.

And, after that, maybe think about the approximately 4000+ pilots that are in the process of being furloughed. Nearly half of them RJ drivers. Perhaps, they should just collect unemployment and go on welfare instead of accepting one of the few legitimate jobs out there like *************************s.

By the way, I have no dog in this fight and neither do you!

************************* pilots, like any other 121 pilot is welcome in my jumpseat anytime! Scabs are not, but I have better things to do then keep antiquated lists to carry out a bitter vendetta relating to fights fought and lost a long time ago.

I know how difficult this industry has become and I am happy to help anyone I can with the little I have to give. Life is short enough.

On a sidenote, the day may come when you will need a ride and a *************************s flight is the only way to work or home. You had better hope that they don't treat you as you would treat them.

 

[dispatchguy]

Looking into the UA APOLLO system for GJ flight closeouts, I see that pilots from DL, AA, UA, WN, CO, OH, YV, and XJ/9E have already been accomodated in GJ jumpseats (granted, riding in the back - but its whatever gets you to/from work first)

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I'm just trying to point out with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight that YOU are part of the problem. This juvenile bickering and playground antics only serves to eat the pilot community and plays right in to the "divide and conquer" strategy of management.

Has the practice of refusing jumpseats because of labor issues not been going on before regional jets, regional pilots, or even having an airline pilot under the age of 30 even existed? This isn't exactly a new thing, chief. Its been going on for many years.

 

[flyer172r]

Well, I guess now you know how the guys/gals at CHQ felt while they were negotiating their last contract with the threats of an alter-ego whipsawing them. You don't think your the first airline to suffer through this do you ??? You don't truely understand until you've "walked a mile in their shoes" do you ? You'd assume go on calling them "bottom-feeders"... Sucks doesn't it ???

I dare you to go through all my posts and find one instance where I called CHQ "bottom feeders." I have a lot of friends there and have never given them crap for what happened with their last contract. I know full well TSA's not the first one to go through this, and I doubt we'll be the last. It does suck, and I was simply making an observation that we'll probably end up no better than they did, and everyone else who wasn't involved will lump us into the "bottom feeder" category.

 

[Lear70]

yeah 'cause 9E has always been the most reputable place to work. You guys got all your CRJ's because of your stellar operations.

Oh no doubt... our management can't staff and operate an airline to save their life. Doesn't change what G0 Jets pilots are doing.

I hear you talking, but one question...... Was not Express ticket bought and 9E started to whipsaw XJ. Not to mention what 9E has done to NWA and its wages? You and I are part of the same problem. We all are at the regional level.

Yes it was. One major difference - 9E wasn't purchased to operate as a Mesaba alter-ego and take aircraft deliveries and flights that Mesaba already had been awarded, and Mesaba wasn't shrunk as 9E grew. That's the major difference. NWA's wages won't hinge on us at all - the BR judge in the 1113(c) filing won't be comparing them to us, they'll be comparing them to other legacy carriers.

I agree though, our salaries and people who accept them ARE part of the problem, just in a different way than you mean - G0 Jets is part of the same problem in the same vein; they are willing to undercut another pilot group for a job.

If you guys at 9E had not bent over and took it from NWA, you'd still be flying J31's and "pink" Saabs. You guys took crap pay, screwed your FO's and gave XJ a bunch of hand me down Saabs. (Including one that rolled into a ditch.)

You say your a Capt. at 9E? So I would be willing to bet that you came on when 9E was making you pay for the honor of working for them... I guess that's makes you way above the ************************* guy...

Actually... I wasn't here during the last contract negotiations, so I can't speak to what happened then.

To answer your last question, no, I wasn't one of the PFT people. I was a street Captain who was paid during training. Look at my sig on the left, I came up flight instructing then flying King Airs, Lears, then the 727 before here. Yes, I worked my butt off to get here. No, I didn't sh*t on anyone else on the way. Yes, that makes me above any G0 Jets pilot. Clear?

O.K. "Richard" ... Your crusade will last about 6 months or so until a new arch enemy of the regional airline profession is crowned. Do whatever you like if it makes you feel important. If you spend the time it takes to keep these lists with you I'm sure you have no other more important issues to occupy your mind.

Took about 5 minutes to put these lists combined in my PDA. When the next "arch-enemy" is crowned, they'll get added too. Doesn't make me feel important, makes me feel like I'm upholding the ETHICAL and MORAL standards this profession is SUPPOSED to be committed to.

And I'm not in any big minority. When I flew 121 and commuted I hardly ever ran in to any jumpseat Nazi captains like yourself. My guess is that the GJ pilots make it to work just fine. Just to prove my point can I ask how many GJ pilots you have personally refused a jumpseat to ??? My bet is ZERO. If so, you're just full of it aren't you... So keep taking the high road Capt...

Jumpseat Nazi? Sure. What you said. My jumpseat is ALWAYS open to professionals who have earned the privilege... remember that one? "Jumpseating is a PRIVILEGE"...? How many GJ pilots have I refused a seat to? One. Three weeks ago. Pretty pissed off guy... too bad.

On a sidenote, the day may come when you will need a ride and a *************************s flight is the only way to work or home. You had better hope that they don't treat you as you would treat them.

It might... and I will simply find a hotel room rather than ask for the jumpseat. Luckily, neither G0 Jets nor Freedom / Mesa goes anywhere I need to go 99.9% of the time.

If I were you I'd be more concerned with how your friends at NWA, i.e Steenland, is srewing you with the upcoming furloughs. Or perhaps staying off of Terry Meffords radar screen.

I file too many grievances to stay off TM's radar for very long.

As far as being concerned about how NWA is going to screw us or, as you mentioned later in your post, directing my energy to thwart management, I have a news flash for you. There's nothing I can do except back my MEC and contract negotiator's 110% when they are battling the company. Being familiar with the RLA you should know that.

Working in this industry is difficult enough without you and your compatriots at TSA adding to the misery.

Go ahead deny some poor smuck your jumpseat that just needs a job to feed his family and is trying to get home to spend the little time he has off with them.

If that really makes you feel good.

Home Depot pays better than years 1-3 F/O - they can feed their family from there and wait for a job that doesn't SCREW OTHER PEOPLE to come available. It doesn't make me "feel good", but I have no sympathy for them either.

The guys that went to work there are not scabs! There is no strike! They did not cross any picket line! And most importantly, they did not take anyone's job!

I didn't say they WERE Scabs. I said they were one SMALL step above Scabs, and I will treat them as such. As for taking someone's job... how long do you think it will be until TSA starts shrinking TSA while growing G0 Jets if the TSA pilots don't cave? If the TSA pilots hold their ground, how much fear do you think management has of them walking when G0 Jets is there to immediately take up the slack?

That's what I thought.

Unlike the scab mechanics at NWA! Do you let those scabs non-rev on your flights ?!?!?!?! I bet they're on your plane more often then you know.

Possibly, and I'd LOVE to be able to do that, but I have no control over who's in the back. Bad comparison... but you get an A for effort.

Has the practice of refusing jumpseats because of labor issues not been going on before regional jets, regional pilots, or even having an airline pilot under the age of 30 even existed? This isn't exactly a new thing, chief. Its been going on for many years.

BINGO!

 

[synchoff]

h25b, why do you keep defending these guys?

Uh, because words have meaning? Particularly labels?

A-holes, maybe. Whipsawer's, absolutely. Scabs, no (not yet, anyway).

 

[h25b]

I dare you to go through all my posts and find one instance where I called CHQ "bottom feeders."

Here ya go...

And we'll have to give up a whole lot in pay increases and work rule improvements that everyone will call us true bottom-feeders right up there with CHQ and Mesa.

Has the practice of refusing jumpseats because of labor issues not been going on before regional jets, regional pilots, or even having an airline pilot under the age of 30 even existed? This isn't exactly a new thing, chief. Its been going on for many years.

This is where your ignorance shines... There's a lot of dumb things that have been going on for years. Does participating in it make it right ??? It has been going on for a while and perhaps you could tell us all what it has gotten us ??? NOWHERE... It's created the situation that we're in now. Having airline pilots under the age of thirty is part of the problem. It creates the division that currently exists amongst the profession which is part of the reason we're in the mess that we're in. Thanks "chief", I appreciate your boundless insight...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Having airline pilots under the age of thirty is part of the problem.

So how old were you when you took that job at CHQ?

 

[h25b]

So how old were you when you took that job at CHQ?

Under 30... Now that I'm over 30 and have been away I can see much clearer. A little more age, a wife, and two kids will teach you not to worry about things that are out of your hands. This whole scheme has been hatched by TSA management. LEGALLY I might add. Nothing has been done outside of TSA scope clause and the GJ pilots have crossed no picket line. So the TSA pilots have no one to blame other than themselves for negotiating a short sighted CBA. It'll be a tough lesson, the same lesson we had to learn at CHQ...

I'm not trying to defend these guys, just pointing out how stupid, pointless, and juvenile your whole quest is... Look back at your airline history. There's always been people willing to cross picket lines. Check out the NWA mechanic's situation. Trying to blacklist/scablist pilots accomplishes nothing and trying to do the same to pilots that aren't even scabs to begin with will achieve even less. But hey, if you've got the time by all means go for it.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Under 30...

So what you're saying is......you were an under 30 airline pilot therefore contributing the degradation of our profession? Tisk tisk.