What made Eastern GO Under?

[publisher]

clear it up

There are a bunch of good details here and for the most part they are right on.

There are also some that are every bit as prejudice as mine.

You might wonder what other reason that the president might have had besides his great relationship with Bush. Like the fact that perhaps other friends of his did not want him to interfere. Take for instance American Airlines, what do you think they wanted. Would a strike at Eastern do them any good.

To me, the downfall of Eastern came much earlier than the late eighties. I am in the late 70's when people were telling me that they were the next failure. I forget which year that Frank Borman did the Airbus deal but they thought Eastern was in deep trouble then.

Frankly most of my thoughts on the subject have little to do with the pilot corp and a lot to do with the IAM, historical maintenance cost, interest expense, and destruction of their hidden reserves. Lorenzo did a good job of grabbing what was left of that.

Did I say anywhere that Eastern should not or could not have been saved.

The people you mention came around after the rape, not back when the airline could have been purchased or merged.

Whether you agree or do not, the fact is that the IAM was considered a militant bunch that would be a pain in the butt of anyone buying the airline.

There is a difference in buying the airline and turning it around and coming in to by an asset cheap.

Lastly, you guys get so worked up over a little discussion over a business. There may be a bunch of facts that I have forgotten.

I do remember that more people wanted System One than the airline itself.

At the time, I was the COO of a medium size public company and I was pretty amazed at the whole thing.

 

[publisher]

clear it up

There are a bunch of good details here and for the most part they are right on.

There are also some that are every bit as prejudice as mine.

You might wonder what other reason that the president might have had besides his great relationship with Bush. Like the fact that perhaps other friends of his did not want him to interfere. Take for instance American Airlines, what do you think they wanted. Would a strike at Eastern do them any good.

To me, the downfall of Eastern came much earlier than the late eighties. I am in the late 70's when people were telling me that they were the next failure. I forget which year that Frank Borman did the Airbus deal but they thought Eastern was in deep trouble then.

Frankly most of my thoughts on the subject have little to do with the pilot corp and a lot to do with the IAM, historical maintenance cost, interest expense, and destruction of their hidden reserves. Lorenzo did a good job of grabbing what was left of that.

Did I say anywhere that Eastern should not or could not have been saved.

The people you mention came around after the rape, not back when the airline could have been purchased or merged.

Whether you agree or do not, the fact is that the IAM was considered a militant bunch that would be a pain in the butt of anyone buying the airline.

There is a difference in buying the airline and turning it around and coming in to by an asset cheap.

Lastly, you guys get so worked up over a little discussion over a business. There may be a bunch of facts that I have forgotten.

I do remember that more people wanted System One than the airline itself.

At the time, I was the COO of a medium size public company and I was pretty amazed at the whole thing.

 

[FD109]

i think my boss was feeling burned out on being a piston cargo dog and he felt if the mechanics hadn't wanted more than the $20 odd an hour they were getting, my boss would be a rich A 300 Capt now

If it was only that simple.

 

[Tim47SIP]

FD

Dood, if I knew my history, I wouldnt be asking probably a very reliable source. You! Didn't mean to insinuate anything. When exactly was the pilot strike and when did the IAM strike occure? I didnt think that they were that far appart, but I really dont remember (could be sometimers disease).

I personally appreciate your cander with this situation as at least you have facts and can present them. Most people just spout off some political slander because it supports their purpose. Although I still like Bush, you have got me thinking on the other side of the fence. I am really supprized that a congressional investigation was not launched especially after he vetoed that bill. Things that make you go HHHMMMMMM!!

 

[FD109]

Re: clear it up

There are a bunch of good details here and for the most part they are right on.

There are also some that are every bit as prejudice as mine.

You might wonder what other reason that the president might have had besides his great relationship with Bush. Like the fact that perhaps other friends of his did not want him to interfere. Take for instance American Airlines, what do you think they wanted. Would a strike at Eastern do them any good.

To me, the downfall of Eastern came much earlier than the late eighties. I am in the late 70's when people were telling me that they were the next failure. I forget which year that Frank Borman did the Airbus deal but they thought Eastern was in deep trouble then.

Frankly most of my thoughts on the subject have little to do with the pilot corp and a lot to do with the IAM, historical maintenance cost, interest expense, and destruction of their hidden reserves. Lorenzo did a good job of grabbing what was left of that.

Did I say anywhere that Eastern should not or could not have been saved.

The people you mention came around after the rape, not back when the airline could have been purchased or merged.

Whether you agree or do not, the fact is that the IAM was considered a militant bunch that would be a pain in the butt of anyone buying the airline.

There is a difference in buying the airline and turning it around and coming in to by an asset cheap.

Lastly, you guys get so worked up over a little discussion over a business. There may be a bunch of facts that I have forgotten.

I do remember that more people wanted System One than the airline itself.

At the time, I was the COO of a medium size public company and I was pretty amazed at the whole thing.

===========================================

Publisher,

I think you better go back and re-read some of your own posts; it sounds like you have forgotten what you said.

Most recently, you said (above), "...There may be a bunch of facts that I have forgotten." Well, publisher, when your argument is supposedly based upon facts, not knowing the facts can cause you some major problems. Perhaps when you admit that you have "forgotten a bunch of the facts..." you should just keep quiet.

In fact, I would say that your lack of knowledge of this subject is so extreme and so obvious that if I were you I'd try to fade into the woodwork where you won't embarass yourself so often and so publically.

I think it is pretty obvious that your position on EAL's demise is based on a pathological hatred for unions and unionized employees, and upon a massive amount of misinformation. Who knows how you acquired your prejudices and opinions, but I guess you are what you are and we'll just have to live with it. It would be interesting to know where you were a COO; that might explain a lot.

I'm sure we're boring a lot of people with stuff about an extinct airline; maybe we should just drop it. You sure as heck aren't going to change my opinion and it's pretty obvious that I'm not going to change yours either.

Adios Publisher

 

[FD109]

Re: FD

Dood, if I knew my history, I wouldnt be asking probably a very reliable source. You! Didn't mean to insinuate anything. When exactly was the pilot strike and when did the IAM strike occure? I didnt think that they were that far appart, but I really dont remember (could be sometimers disease).

I personally appreciate your cander with this situation as at least you have facts and can present them. Most people just spout off some political slander because it supports their purpose. Although I still like Bush, you have got me thinking on the other side of the fence. I am really supprized that a congressional investigation was not launched especially after he vetoed that bill. Things that make you go HHHMMMMMM!!

There was no pilot strike. The only strike during this period was the IAM. The IAM strike began in March 1989.

I've been going HHHMMMMMMMMM for a long time now!! Thanks for your comments.

 

[TurboS7]

FD109, you obviously were there, I am editing this post as I buzzed thru them not looking at the profiles to see who was saying what.This is my observation you can fill in the blanks for the guys. ALPA got burned real bad by Lorenzo at CAL and they didn't want to come up smelling bad whe the EAL thing came up. They didn't vote to strike and the pilot's contract had been voted on and radified. The decision was to cross or not to cross the IAM picket line, that happened by pilot calling their buddy pilot and saying are you going to work or not. One pilot said yes and a few of his buddies went, other said h..ll no and they didn't cross. Others took the woosy way out and called in sick. Bottom line is that the EAL's pilots future was ruined by the very union that was voted on to protect their jobs, just to make a national statement. If ALPA would have said go back to work after just a couple of weeks EAL would still be here today. UAL promises to be the next big mess and this time I get to just sit back and watch.

 

[Typhoon1244]

FD109, for someone who wasn't there or went through it you seem to have a bunch of facts that came right from all of ALPA's total bs.

Uh, Turbo? FD109 was there. Don't you think he sounds too well-informed to be a casual observer? Take a look at his profile; he's flown just about every airplane E.A.L. had between '66 and '89.

UAL promises to be the next big mess and this time I get to just sit back and watch.

Really? Were you at Eastern or Continental? And exactly which side of the picket line were you on?

 

[TurboS7]

I must admit you are right, guess I should have looked closer, I just wizzed through the post after getting back from a 6 day trip. My post is a little zippy but I would like to know how the EAL guys feel about ALPA now.

 

[Tim47SIP]

So I'm not very bright!

OK, now I'm confused (which is probably normal).

I am sorry, but I am totally ignorant concerning this issue and would like some clarification.

FD stated:"There was no pilot strike. The only strike during this period was the IAM. The IAM strike began in March 1989. "

Turbo stated:"They didn't vote to strike and the pilot's contract had been voted on and radified. The decision was to cross or not to cross, that happened by pilot calling their buddy pilot and saying are you going to work or not. One pilot said yes and a few of his buddies went, other said h..ll no and they didn't cross. Others took the woosy way out and called in sick."


Was there an official strike called? FD says no and Turbo implies that a contract was ratified but some pilots later decided that they didn't like the contract so they stayed home. Were these two seperate incidents or did this happen under Lorenzos control? When was the strike that all of the scabs came from? If the work stopage was done after a signed contract and no official strike was called, then why are the guys that went to work concidered scabs? Thanks! Tim.