What has ALPA done for me lately?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Interesting that again I have been told that my expectations were not valid. The only expectation I have stated was that I expected my union to represent my interests with honor and integrity.

Define honor and intergrity...mix in reality too...

I did not expect alpa to protect me as you stated. Had alpa acted with integrity the result may very well have been the same.

So.. you say ALPA didn't act with integrity but you are now using the "Scalded McDonalds Coffee" tactic (IOW no integrity) to respond?

You are right, reality won't change. the reality for me is that I will not belong to and support an organization that lacks integrity and honor....namely alpo.

I guess the real question is... integrity and honor... and YOU get to define it...

So you and Rez can don your alpa cheerleading outfits and dance around in circles all you want it changes nothing. In fact the sad thing is it doesn't appear that you even see the need for change within alpa.

All you talk about is what ALPA didn't do for you.... what did you do for the profession? Did you actively envoke positive change.. me thinks you are a taker... for your TWA career... your moral, legal and honorable, obligation ended with dues money. Tell me I am wrong.

good luck with that, I don't see any further benefit watching you guys talk in circles.

We have actually asked for clear, unemotional facts to explain the TWO pilots position. The only facts we have gotten are from legal docs.

In addition, you said you are ready to burn ALPA down and disregard the 60,000 members who still use ALPA has thier representation... I am trying to find honor in that..

My view is concise and constant:

1-alpa lacks honor and integrity
2-alpa has become an ineffective bloated bureauacracy no longer interested in the views of the members
3-I believe the TWA pilots lawsuit will succeed.

You want a financial award for YOU regardless of the impact on 60,000 other pilots... got it!

 

[Vne]

I believe the first tenet of Labor law regarding Duty of fair representation is "Do no harm"....
It is the former TWA pilots position that ALPA as bargaining agent "caused harm" by their actionable failure to materially and financially represent the TWA pilots while conducting negotiations with the APA.

The case moves forward. ALPA drags its feet. Discovery is on going. The trial will answer all relevant questions.

 

[flygirlqt]

You want a financial award for YOU regardless of the impact on 60,000 other pilots... got it!

Exactly the mentality of the apologists at Herndon discussing their absurd salary and benefit packages.

 

[PHXFLYR]

hey "QT.."

Just wondering....If you were employed as one of the "apologists",would you still be complaining about the "absurd salary and benefit packages", or would they somehow now be justified? I'm going to assume that you are an ALPA member. If so, and if the salaries that these folks receive seems to be such a huge sticking point with you,as maybe it should be;then did you take the time to submit a resolution at your last LEC meeting calling for a complete overhaul of the ALPA National salary structure? Or is it easier just to fit in with "the boys" by spouting off on an absolutley useless webboard like FI.com and not doing anything else about the matter? Just wondering.......



PHXFLYR

























PHXFLYR

 

[FDJ2]

I believe the first tenet of Labor law regarding Duty of fair representation is "Do no harm"....

The three part test is whether or not a unions actions are arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith.

It is the former TWA pilots position that ALPA as bargaining agent "caused harm" by their actionable failure to materially and financially represent the TWA pilots while conducting negotiations with the APA.


April 2, 2001: The TWA MEC passes a resolution waiving its seniority protection provisions in exchange for American’s “reasonable best efforts” promise.


Notice that it was the MEC not ALPA national that waived it's seniority protections. Were the actions of the TWA MEC arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith?


April 10, 2001: American’s purchase of TWA’s assets finalized; TWA-LLC begins operations as a separate air carrier.


Any part of this the fault of ALPA?

November 8, 2001: American and APA execute Supplement CC, an agreement governing the seniority integration of the former TWA pilots.


What part of this was done by ALPA? It appears that Supplement CC is an agreement between the APA and American.


March 5, 2002: NMB declares that American and TWA LLC are a “single carrier” for RLA purposes.


That's a NMB decision, not ALPA decision.

April 3, 2002: NMB certifies APA as the sole bargaining agent for all pilots, making Supplement CC effective; transition agreement between TWA-LLC and ALPA expires.


Again, a NMB decision, not an ALPA decision.

April 18, 2002: Arbitrator rejects ALPA’s allegation that American did not use its “reasonable best efforts” to protect the TWA-LLC pilots’ seniority integration, as promised in its letter.


ALPA took the seniority integration to arbitration and lost. Was that arbitrary, discriminatory or in bad faith? The arbitrator rejected the allegation, made by ALPA, that American did not use its "reasonable best efforts."

September 3, 2002: Class action initiated by former TWA pilots.

The case moves forward. ALPA drags its feet. Discovery is on going. The trial will answer all relevant questions.

JMHO, but it will go as far as the RJDC's litigation and wont make it to trial.

 

[flygirlqt]

hey "QT.."

Just wondering....If you were employed as one of the "apologists",would you still be complaining about the "absurd salary and benefit packages", or would they somehow now be justified? I'm going to assume that you are an ALPA member. If so, and if the salaries that these folks receive seems to be such a huge sticking point with you,as maybe it should be;then did you take the time to submit a resolution at your last LEC meeting calling for a complete overhaul of the ALPA National salary structure? Or is it easier just to fit in with "the boys" by spouting off on an absolutley useless webboard like FI.com and not doing anything else about the matter? Just wondering.......

PHXFLYR

I am happy that you are satisfied with what your dues are paying for. Yes I am an ALPA member, as was my Father and my Grandfather.

No, I would not accept such an outrageous salary, especially when the membership has suffered under such draconian pay cuts and loss and theft of retirements. There is something very disturbing when you have secretaries making thousands more than Regional Captains. Or, the President (whom by the way stated he would not accept one dollar more than his CAL salary) making 4 to 5 times his highest paid constituents.

I have also been around ALPA long enough to know that spending my time introducing a resolution regarding this travesty has just as much chances of actually fixing it as is my desire to blow you.

 

[ualdriver]

It is the former TWA pilots position that ALPA as bargaining agent "caused harm" by their actionable failure to materially and financially represent the TWA pilots while conducting negotiations with the APA.

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but what were examples in a TWA pilot's eyes, where ALPA failed to materially and financially represent the group?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I am happy that you are satisfied with what your dues are paying for. Yes I am an ALPA member, as was my Father and my Grandfather.

What did trhey tell you about your responsibilities as an ALPA member?

No, I would not accept such an outrageous salary,

but yet you thought it was acceptable when others were saying... that UAL2000 and DAL2001 were outgragous... you felt those pilots should have taken cuts..

especially when the membership has suffered under such draconian pay cuts and loss and theft of retirements.

And how was it the staffers fault... expecially when the pilots agreed via free will to those paycuts.

There is something very disturbing when you have secretaries making thousands more than Regional Captains.

Perhaps... what is the cost of living in NOVA?

Or, the President (whom by the way stated he would not accept one dollar more than his CAL salary) making 4 to 5 times his highest paid constituents.

WRONG! that is not what he said... he said he would accept any pay structure the BOD agreed upon...

I have also been around ALPA long enough to know that spending my time introducing a resolution regarding this travesty has just as much chances of actually fixing it as is my desire to blow you.

Cute... maybe your resolution doesn't pass the sniff test amongts cooler heads in a democratic group.

You can fret that things that you do not or cannot easily control are the big problems in your life or you can (wo)man up and understand what you can control and work to effect change.

The choice and career are yours...

 

[Vne]

Honestly, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but what were examples in a TWA pilot's eyes, where ALPA failed to materially and financially represent the group?

Honestly I'm not going to say anything specific about the case . The facts and evidence will be presented in open court. I think ALPA has done a disservice to the union movement by their actions. You and I will just have to wait for the legal process to determine if the court feels that is so.

 

[ualdriver]

Honestly I'm not going to say anything specific about the case . The facts and evidence will be presented in open court. I think ALPA has done a disservice to the union movement by their actions. You and I will just have to wait for the legal process to determine if the court feels that is so.

So it's a secret? I knew the TWA guys were mad considering the circumstances, but when someone posted above that ALPA did something "dishonorable," I thought the facts of such action would be pretty easy to list?