What has ALPA done for me lately?

[PCL_128]

Flopgut, since you're so concerned about changing the RLA, which I agree with you about, do you contribute to ALPA-PAC so we can get pro-labor politicians in office to make it happen?

 

[FDJ2]

Ual driver,
Here in lies the problem. While the TWA pilots were looking for some support from other MECs, they did absolutely nothing.

Once the seniority integration methodolgy was published, ALPA took the seniority list to arbitration, even though the TWA MEC conceded their seniority integration rights, and lost. The arbitrator ruled that AA and the APA had given a "reasonable and best effort" (not my words) at constructing a fair integration.

 

[swa737-700]

Litigants that don't have much of a case like to keep things secret. I heard RJDC wankers drone on and on for 8 years about how they were going to "teach" ALPA about representing members properly. In the end, they settled for a fraction of their legal bills and still ended up having to pay over $1 million of their legal costs out of their own pockets. This will end up in much the same way.

Not so fast genius. Litigants (at least in our case) will stay quiet so that info damaging to the other side does not inadvertently get into the wrong hands. Loose lips sink ships. If you have not figured it out yet, it would help the other side prep. We will not show our hand. Pretty simple if you think about it. And I hope that the documentation is so convincing as to bring apa/amr back into the fray.
Why are you and ual so bent on getting the gouge?

 

[swa737-700]

Once the seniority integration methodolgy was published, ALPA took the seniority list to arbitration, even though the TWA MEC conceded their seniority integration rights, and lost. The arbitrator ruled that AA and the APA had given a "reasonable and best effort" (not my words) at constructing a fair integration.

FD,
Where was the outcry well BEFORE we got to this point? All alpo carriers could have banded together and denied JS priviledges or whatever to aa pilots in order to convince amr/aa to play fair. Where was all this "stand arm in arm unionism" when this unfolded? Almost everyone in alpo had their head stuck in the sand...whether that was because their MECs choose to keep the line folks that way is the question. Sounds like it since most folks I talk to are very ignorant on this topic. That is too bad and hopefully this neglect will not adversely affect other carriers who will undoubtly be merged, perhaps UAL and DAL.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well, my Grandfather is dead and my Dad says that today’s ALPA is nothing but a shell of it’s former self. My father said that more than likely those in my Grandfather’s era are turning in their graves seeing what has become of the union today.

So the modern day airline industry doesn't match up to your grandpa's standards... DC-3 speeds can't keep up with a turbojet?

I have never thought the salaries paid to National officers were ever acceptable. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish by putting words in my mouth about UAL and DAL as I never equated anything remotely to those cba’s.

Two things.... Only the President gets a salary, and that salary is determined by the ALPA BOD, which is elected by every ALPA pilot... usually, these elections have a minority particaption rate...of 30% so who do we really need to look at?

The other three ALPA officers get their airlines pay, basically....and they have taken deep cuts as you know.. including thier pension.

In addition, any expenes that the ALPA national officers incur (or any ALPA volunteer actually) are subject to IRS taxes. So, if I give up a day off and do ALPA work and I expense a lunch meal, then I have to pay tax on that expense as if it was income. Nice IRS...huh...

The problem is people like you focus on misinformation like ALPA national salaries... and you create a negative stigma that is based on false data... how productive is that?

You either missed the concept or understood it perfectly. Mostly assuredly both apply to you.

Right...

?

I know what you mean...

If I had the energy (or even really cared), I would search for some of Prater’s election propoganda where he did in fact state this. Either way, doesn’t really matter since the end result is the same. Another broken promise.

Sorry... nice try... the only thing Prater said was he'd take a pay cut if the BOD mandated it...

I address your energy state below...

The resolution would never survive the political hacking and backstabbing it would create. The ALPA triangle has become too politically insulated for real effective membership input to result in change.

Who would be doing the politcal hacking and backstabbing? Your fellow pilots at an LEC meeting? Aren't you really saying that this whole self reliance and responsibility for your own airline career is really a bit too troublesome...or that you don't have the energy? The fact is there are some really cool sit coms on TV that you'd rather watch.. or maybe something else?

Typical response but I commend you for at least toning it down from your usual "it's the memberships fault". Change also starts from the leadership.

Nice try again... dump it on the leadership.... that way you won't have to accept responsbility for your career. You won't have to hone your political skill to deal with your political career.

Who really wonders if they will be politically effective in thier career while learning how to fly? Who would have known that once you got the job that you have to work to keep it and to make it better.

I’m not sure if it has sunk into guys like you that your continued rhetoric has alienated a lot of people towards the union.

I am not sure if it has sunk into you membership people that it is YOUR career. Quit dumping all the repsonsbility of YOUR career onto volunteers. We are trying to do the best we can but when you don't give a SH*T until it is too late and then complain that we didn't read your minds it gets real old..real quick.

Look man... regardless of how effective other people are in managing your career..at the end of the day you are going to have the benefits or liabilites of YOUR career. The only course of action you have to do to manage your career is CHOOSE to do so...

I am tired of defending the Association to its own members. I get more respect from Congressmen, the FAA and others than I do from my own people.

The recent dismal representation election at Skywest is a perfect example. It should also serve as a long overdue wake up call for ALPA.

Who needs to wake up?

The 5% attendence rate at LEC meetings?
The 30% voter particaption rate in LEC elctions?
The 30% particaption rate in the AGE 60 survey.

Sorry.. but membership involvement is way to weak and low for you to try and attempt to blame the volunteer leadership. You mean with family and a full time flight schedule, I volunteer to make this profession better, the mebership does sqaut....and it is..... get this........are you ready...... here it comes...... its.......MY FAULT.... that your career doesn't meet YOUR expectations.....

Got it......


If you paid your G-pa and Dad for your ALPA education... I suggest you get your money back... and give it to ALPA-PAC...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you high?

FD,
Where was the outcry well BEFORE we got to this point?

At the golf course... on vacation... or wherever apathy lives...

All alpo carriers could have banded together and denied JS priviledges or whatever to aa pilots in order to convince amr/aa to play fair.

So hammer the AA pilots for something AMR did?

Where was all this "stand arm in arm unionism" when this unfolded? Almost everyone in alpo had their head stuck in the sand...

Does that include the 60,000 members or are we just blaming the volunteers who step up to the plate?

whether that was because their MECs choose to keep the line folks that way is the question. Sounds like it since most folks I talk to are very ignorant on this topic.

Now you are coming around.... ignorance is all too common...

That is too bad and hopefully this neglect will not adversely affect other carriers who will undoubtly be merged, perhaps UAL and DAL.

Let's get concerned!!

 

[PCL_128]

Why are you and ual so bent on getting the gouge?

I'm not. I really couldn't care less about the details of your silly little lawsuit, because I don't believe for a second that you have a real case. I was far more worried about the outcome of the RJDC case, and we all saw how that ended up. Their small settlement will probably be more than what you'll get.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Hey, Floppy! 'member when you posted this:

"If ALPA did something wrong--I want to know about it! I think we all should!" [#106]

It appears the evil and nefarious "ALPA" hasn't quite cornered the market on self-serving secrecy.

Not so fast genius. Litigants (at least in our case) will stay quiet so that info damaging to the other side does not inadvertently get into the wrong hands. Loose lips sink ships. If you have not figured it out yet, it would help the other side prep. We will not show our hand. Pretty simple if you think about it. And I hope that the documentation is so convincing as to bring apa/amr back into the fray.

You even personalized it a bit...

"If ALPA did something wrong--I want to know about it! I think we all should! Problem we've got here is a guy like Occam (and maybe you as well) doesn't want ALPA's dirty secrets exposed, wants to keep hiding them and keep them available for future use!"

Yet Mr. swa737-700...who is not an ALPA officer...or even a member...seems to be the one keeping a lid on those "dirty little secrets".

You so owe me a hug!

Why are you and ual so bent on getting the gouge?

Sic 'em, flopgut!

No prisoners!

 

[FDJ2]

FD,
Where was the outcry well BEFORE we got to this point?

How far before? Should we have prevented the TWA pilots from surrendering their contractual seniority integration rights? Is that when we should have all banded together? Is the jumpseat the proper venue for resolving political differences at your airline or with your union? How has SWA traditionally treated it's merger partners in its asset acquisitions?

 

[swa737-700]

fd, occum, pcl.

I am done discussing this issue. Let it drop and we shall see if the suit has any merit.
You all obviously have your opinion and no logic will change your mind.
Fly safe and have a great Thanksgiving.