What has ALPA done for me lately?

[FDJ2]

Pylut, the original lawsuit had the following:

LEROY BENSEL, individually and
as representative of a class consisting
of former Trans World Airlines, Inc.,
pilots employed by TWA Airlines LLC
as of April 2001,
Appellant
v.
ALLIED PILOTS ASSOCIATION;
TWA AIRLINES, LLC;
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION;​

AMERICAN AIRLINES, INC.

The lawsuits against the APA, TWA and AA were summarily dismissed as was the lawsuit against ALPA. On appeal the Appeals Court decided to allow Bensel and the TWA pilots to proceed with discovery.

The Court stated: "It is our belief that at this stage of the proceedings Plaintiffs should be given a fuller opportunity for discovery relating to Count I and permitted to ascertain if there is any factual support for their claims. At this point we ask “not whether a plaintiff will ultimately prevail but whether the claimant is entitled to offer evidence to support the claims.”

"It may be that ALPA properly carried out its duty of fair representation and there was nothing ALPA could realistically accomplish under difficult circumstances. But it is too early to decide this issue at this point."

 

[pylut]

exactly,
4 entities were named.
the ONGOING litigation is with alpa. I think I might have mentioned that a time or two

 

[FDJ2]

exactly,
4 entities were named.
the ONGOING litigation is with alpa. I think I might have mentioned that a time or two

Sorry if I missed it. Carry on.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

exactly,
4 entities were named.
the ONGOING litigation is with alpa. I think I might have mentioned that a time or two

Believe me... if the APA or AMR was still a viable legal target then you'd be at it... ALPA is left holding the bag...

Run your program....suck the union dry.... we won't worry...you know..just as long as you get yours... the rest of the dues paying 60,000 will pay for something they had nothing to do with.....

If ALPA was an in house TWA union...you'd have nothing....

Heck you should've WANTED the skywest pilots to join...more dues money for you to siphon...

Q. if your award put ALPA out of operation...and you knew so...would you proceed?

 

[pylut]

Believe me... if the APA or AMR was still a viable legal target then you'd be at it... ALPA is left holding the bag...
I believe you, I was simply informing you of the status of the lawsuit.

Run your program....suck the union dry.... we won't worry...you know..just as long as you get yours... the rest of the dues paying 60,000 will pay for something they had nothing to do with.....

If ALPA was an in house TWA union...you'd have nothing.... Except perhaps honest representation

Heck you should've WANTED the skywest pilots to join...more dues money for you to siphon...

I have good friends at Skywest. Now why would I want them to belong to such a waste of time like alpa?
I would much rather see them start or join an effective union than throw their money away on a sham like alpa.

Q. if your award put ALPA out of operation...and you knew so...would you proceed?

Actually, that would be my preference. What do you think of that? Shocking isn't it, cause then I won't have "gotten mine". Frankly this is about righting a wrong, not the money. I think the 60,000 dues paying members would be much better served by alpa going away and making way for an effective union. The present incarnation of alpa is too entrenched with career bureaucrats more concerned about their own job security than the integrity of the profession. Somewhere along the line alpa lost it's soul. bummer for all of us.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Actually, that would be my preference. What do you think of that? Shocking isn't it, cause then I won't have "gotten mine". Frankly this is about righting a wrong, not the money.

What is the wrong? What could ALPA have reasonably done?

I mean give me a objective view.. or even.. argue to case from ALPA's point of view...if you can..

I think the 60,000 dues paying members would be much better served by alpa going away and making way for an effective union.

Wow... you speak for 60,000 pilots.. that is a bit presumptious don't you think?

The present incarnation of alpa is too entrenched with career bureaucrats more concerned about their own job security than the integrity of the profession.Somewhere along the line alpa lost it's soul. bummer for all of us.

Can you place a time frame on when ALPA lost its soul... do you think it is about the same time you realized that your expectations wren't valid?

 

[pylut]

What is the wrong? What could ALPA have reasonably done?
Re-read post 28.
Do you think alpa acted honorably with the TWA pilots? If so, it says a lot about your definition of honor.
I mean give me a objective view.. or even.. argue to case from ALPA's point of view...if you can..



Wow... you speak for 60,000 pilots.. that is a bit presumptious don't you think?

I can only speak for one person, myself. That is why that statement starts with "I think".

Talk about presumptious, how bout alpa ignoring their own poll results on the age 60 poll. Clearly they know better than their membership. Now that's presumptious. I know I know, your old argument about 30% responding. How many do you think are going to bothger to respond next time? clearly, informing your own union (alpa) is a waste of time as they have their own agenda. If they want to know what your opinion is they will tell you.

Can you place a time frame on when ALPA lost its soul...
No, I can't pinpoint when the decline in moral integrity began at alpa
do you think it is about the same time you realized that your expectations wren't valid?

My expectation was honorable representation from my union. You are correct, that apparently was not a valid expectation from alpo at that point in time.

compromise is valid in many circumstances. Not, however when your own integrity is at stake.

 

[Occam's Razor]

I think the 60,000 dues paying members would be much better served by alpa going away and making way for an effective union.

Who would populate and operate this new union?

Would it's leadership come from a different subset? Does ALPA prevent it's members from being elected to positions that influence policy and direction?

The present incarnation of alpa is too entrenched with career bureaucrats more concerned about their own job security than the integrity of the profession.

Somewhere along the line alpa lost it's soul. bummer for all of us.

Somewhere along the line events occured that caused your expectations to be filed under "not likely". The actual causes were economic, political, and governmental, but that doesn't fit on a flight bag sticker. You're pi$$ed, and need a villian! You need someone to blame and to hate.

ALPA fits.

After all, that 1.95% of your income is supposed to provide your career with penicillin, tractor-beams, and deflector shields.

ALPA failed to protect you, those weasels!

But the NEW UNION!...boy!...that'll be different! It'll be invincible. It'll change bankruptcy laws overnight, make the White House view unions in a different light, and prevent you from ever having to lay over in the crappy room right next to the elevator!

It'll rock!

'Cept for a few problems:

1. A new union doesn't change the issues. It'll still have to deal with disunifying problems like Age 60. It'll still have to work with a hostile NMB, appointed by an anti-Labor administration.

2. It's still gonna depend on YOU. It's gonna depend on you to play a role. And this'll be the part worthy of a youtube clip: 15-minutes into the first meeting of theNEW UNION...you're gonna realize everybody doesn't view each issue exactly the same way YOU do! Uh-Oh! Please upload your stirring "We must be unified!" speech to the body after your first 51-49 vote.

3. Your expectations might change...but reality won't. And reality, my brother, is everything...not just the things you can control. Reality is the itchy trigger-finger of a 28-year old hedge fund manager whose personal expectation (to be a billionaire before he's 30) conflicts with your expecations. Reality is oil prices. Reality is the conflicting expectations of large organized pilot groups who might not be ALPA, might not speak English, and almost certainly don't give a rat's butt how badly you want your expectations.

There's more to the narrative...but you're probably well-read enough to figure out how it ends.

Call me Ishmael.

 

[ualdriver]

I'm going to have to admit some ignorance concerning the TWA lawsuit vs. ALPA. I'm relatively familiar with the sequence of events as posted by FDJ2 a few posts back and I skimmed the lawsuit.

This may be a big mistake, but here it goes......Can someone, without emotion, explain to me the logic behind why this group of TWA pilots is suing ALPA? What was it that that the TWA pilots wanted ALPA to do that it didn't do? If the TWA pilots had gotten everything that they wanted through ALPA against the AA pilots, what would that have been?

 

[pylut]

Razor-

Interesting that again I have been told that my expectations were not valid. The only expectation I have stated was that I expected my union to represent my interests with honor and integrity.

I did not expect alpa to protect me as you stated. Had alpa acted with integrity the result may very well have been the same.

You are right, reality won't change. the reality for me is that I will not belong to and support an organization that lacks integrity and honor....namely alpo.


So you and Rez can don your alpa cheerleading outfits and dance around in circles all you want it changes nothing. In fact the sad thing is it doesn't appear that you even see the need for change within alpa.

good luck with that, I don't see any further benefit watching you guys talk in circles.

My view is concise and constant:

1-alpa lacks honor and integrity
2-alpa has become an ineffective bloated bureauacracy no longer interested in the views of the members
3-I believe the TWA pilots lawsuit will succeed.