West pilots to be "strikebreakers."

[MCDU]

AWA pilots have already proved that they will scab. I have no doubt they would do it again.

M

 

[BeCareful!]

denny.....thanks for showing your true colors, and that of your scabby brethren.

 

[Captzaahlie]

It all does not matter what these AWA pilots want. The West will disappear and so will its pilot group at USAIR. Kind of like what happened to the Midatlantic Pilots.

Kind of like the MDA folks. So lets just let them fold like we did with MDA and get this diseased pilot group off our back.

M

AND YOU ARE PROUD OF THE WAY THE MDA FOLKS GOT TREATED?

MCDU~ you are a very self centered little b1tch aren't you?
Please go put some fresh panties on and call it a day........
I couldn't give a rats @$$ about usap or alpa, I'd just like to see some of you hard core winers (from both the e/w sides grow up and act like airline pilots. So much for any professionalism in the industry..............

 

[MCDU]

Sarcasm.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Back peddling....

 

[MCDU]

By the way. Lots of uncovered trips. Really short on pilots on the East. Pilots are not picking up time because of the furloughs. Almost every day no pilots on reserve. Just checked CATCREW and its pretty ugly.

M

 

[cactusboy53]

What a coincidence. Short staffed on the west too. If you pick up a "red flag" trip it's worth 125% (not too likely). If you get JA'd (more likely than picking up time) then the driver gets 150%!! Another scenario is when they pick a driver off of his or her trip to cover something else....the driver gets the best of the two trips PLUS an additional 50% of what you are flying (IV Pay)!! Don't forget the ever popular 100% for DH's & Mechanicals!!

C2004 may not have been the best contract, it's probably the near-best in the industry now.:laugh:

 

[vetrider]

By the way. Lots of uncovered trips. Really short on pilots on the East. Pilots are not picking up time because of the furloughs. Almost every day no pilots on reserve. Just checked CATCREW and its pretty ugly.

M

Not enough scabs to go around?

 

[eaglesview]

Not enough scabs to go around?

By the sounds of things on this thread there are plenty. Seem to by mostly out west.

 

[Contract]

Certain individuals are really trying to confuse the issue. The bottom line is that the US Air East Pilots have been misled into thinking that Final and Binding Arbitration does not apply to them. They are being misguided by a minority group of pilots that have previously demonstrated their lack of leadership with the pilot group as well as management. This same leadership group is now leading them down a path of self destruction. Like sheep being led to the slaughter this group continues to miss opportunities to renegotiate a bottom of the barrel contract while the company whip saw's the East and West Pilot Groups to their advantage.

The bottom line is that everyone knows the East was about to liquidate and America West along with investors saved each and every pilot their job. The leadership of the America West Management Team along with the capital needed to finalize the deal also helped the America West group to expand its operation into a lucrative east coast market place. The US Air East Market has now been turned around operationally in many categories and has demonstrated itself as once again a money maker for the new company under the guidance of progressive leadership by the former America West Management Team.

Going forward do not be surprised to see the labor problems that the East have instigated be dealt with in a rather expeditious manner. There is no room for labor problems in an industry that competes strongly on a daily basis. Law of Arbitration and the reality of the Nicolau List will soon be the special of the day that USAPA MEMBERS finally come to terms with.

Any first year law student can tell you that the company will never negotiate items that render this list ineffective in any way shape or form since its already been decided by an arbitrator. Put yourself in the companies shoes and take the emotion out. What would you do?

A. STALL
B. STALL
C. Give the pilots a Raise
D. STALL
E. all of the above, except C

Many Universities throughout the country are using this very situation in Case Studies and the outcome continues to be the same. The list can not be rendered ineffective by either party nor through negotiations which effectively damge anyones senority as stipulated in the arbitrated senority list.

 

[eaglesview]

Any first year law student can tell you that the company will never negotiate items that render this list ineffective in any way shape or form since its already been decided by an arbitrator. Put yourself in the companies shoes and take the emotion out. What would you do?

.

Negotiate with the union that is on the property for starters.

 

[MCDU]

Oh that Nic award. To bad it will never happen. Just look at the upcoming furloughs.
With the Nic in place there would be almost no furloughs out West and AWA pilots would be displacing East pilots in their positions, even though flying is being cut in money losing West bases. Easties are looking out for their flying and their pilots. Thats why a flawed Nic list will never see the light. Never.

M

 

[becket]

It all does not matter what these AWA pilots want. The West will disappear and so will its pilot group at USAIR. Kind of like what happened to the Midatlantic Pilots.

Do not forget. AWA are not USAIR pilots. They can not bid a position at USAIR. They are locked into their aircraft. Kind of like the MDA folks. So lets just let them fold like we did with MDA and get this diseased pilot group off our back.

We do not want them. I say sell them to MESA and give them relative senioirity with no restrictions. They will be back at ALPA and all be happy.


M

Sounds like the stress of Reality is starting to get to our favourite 1999 hire/furloughee/returnee, (thanks only to America West).

If you get this upset every time you bottom feeding scum lose in court...you're going to have a rough life Amigo.

Also, as far as the NIC never seeing the light of day is concerned, Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about your poor career choices.

Our law firms have a very very different opinion than you do. The difference is they actually know what they're talking about.

 

[waveflyer]

Eagle- What motivation does management have to negotiate anything at all w/ AAA? They are loving this situation. The Nic award won't see the light of day- until AAA wants a new contract. Bottom line- the west guys have a contract worthy of waiting the east out. AAA guys don't. AAA has a commuter type contract-- basically the regs-- every day they get to taxi along in their 190 knowing that every RJ captain w/ the same years of service makes more flying a jet half the size.

 

[denny]

AWA pilots have already proved that they will scab. I have no doubt they would do it again.

M

I wish you would have directed that post to me and not to a group of guys who are mostly dead or long retired. I have never, ever crossed a picket line in my life. But you see, USAPA is not a union. It is not doing anything remotely salient to being a true union.

So therefore, since this is the age of me, mine and more for me (USAPA), I'm taking a play from your book and saying upfront and in front of everyone who cares to listen that I will scab a scab organization. It is a free for all right now because the east insanity has finally infiltrated its way out of the east. I knew it would happen some day but never thought it would be from fellow pilots.

I enjoy reading your hopeful but hopeless posts and applaud you for making the effort to shore up a collapsing house. But when push comes to shove you can bet I'll be the first one in line to shove the mentality of USAPA and its lawbreaking ways. Put me on list, call me names, blackball me - I DO NOT CARE. What I care about is integrity and professionalism and that and a whole lot more is sorely lacking from the leadership of USAPA.

Guys USAPA wants our payroll numbers. That information is confidential and the union has no right to that information.

We have had west guys sign up as members of USAPA and volunteer to be reps but so far everyone of them has been turned down.

USAPA has sued their own members, lost, and is attempting to sue again.

USAPA claims it can't figure out how to assess dues for non-members and objectors so it will just charge the full rate, use that money to their benefit and then refund it at the end of the year. That is so ILLEGAL it is beyond belief they would even attempt to that!

USAPA has 500 applications for membership from the west and objectors but is just sitting on them for no apparent reason other than to say they have incomplete information. The information required is:

name

employee number

base

USAPA is cherry picking which section of the contract they inherit and which they don't. They like the section 29 - dues payment section but don't like the section regarding the implementation of the seniority award. You can't have it both ways guys.

USAPA is operating so far outside the legal norm and making things up as they go and that is what prompts me to write. So long as people like MCDU continue to pull the covers over their head and the USAPA leaders such as the Bradfords and Clearys of the aviation world exist then I do have a very definite purpose in life! To see that they are taken down, destroyed, and never allowed again to involve themselves in aviation related pilot matters including running a Cessna 150 flying club. They would steal and rob you blind if you were unfortunate enough to be a member.

Keep it coming MCDU. I'm ready! The west is ready. The courts are ready. The company is ready. The government is ready. I hate to be hateful but hate is all we have seen from USAPA and I don't like it. I'll fight them in every way I can.

Most of the east guys see this "organization" for what it is now. They only have a few soldiers such as MCDU to go out and tell lies. And lie is what they do. This isn't a hard nor a very difficult fight. It just takes time. And time will kill USAPA. This is one of the sorriest and saddest aviation related events I have seen in my 35 years of flying. I've not seen so many pilots from so many different airlines get upset about anything since Lorenzo was running wild and naked through the industry. USAPA must be Lorenzo's bastard child.

Denny

 

[denny]

AWA pilots have already proved that they will scab. I have no doubt they would do it again.

M

US Airways pilots have no problem scabbing a scab organization. USAPA is a such an organization.

 

[denny]

denny.....thanks for showing your true colors, and that of your scabby brethren.

Your very welcome. I am proud to show my colors and support the professional pilots of my airline, US Airways, and of this country. I hope you can see your way fit to rejoin the brotherhood.

Denny

 

[denny]

Negotiate with the union that is on the property for starters.

I think that is what is happening however the organization known as USAPPA is not participating.

 

[becket]

I think that is what is happening however the organization known as USAPPA is not participating.

USAPA is not a Union.

 

[Fast43]

Not according to Judge Robert Harris on Oct 30, 2006, presiding over the TWU Arbitration between the AWA and USAir Flight Dispatchers.

The West characterizes the merger decision on AWA’s part as a one-way
economic bailout. But there is no support for this in the record; surely, the
respective companies did not endorse that view. AWA concluded, according to
the statements of its CEO, that “…when we looked out at our future, what we saw
wasn’t good…. Assuming we couldn’t go out and restructure or raise cash, it is
possible that AWA would have been facing its own Chapter 11 at some point.
Employees may like to think we “saved” US but the fact is we saved each other…"

That being said, why should the east pilots recieve a larger stake in this new company than the West pilots, if we are assuming it was a mutually beneficial merger????????????


Fast

 

[Ocity]

That being said, why should the east pilots recieve a larger stake in this new company than the West pilots, if we are assuming it was a mutually beneficial merger????????????


Fast

Because the East thinks the West is lucky to share the same airspace...even though the West made their payroll and saved each and every single one of them from the unemployment line.

The East is nothing but a bunch of bitter delusional old men who think that their career cancer will be cured by ramming it into an otherwise healthy body.

They actually believe that "majority rule" is enough to execute their anti-labor plans.

Failure is inevitable...like it always has been for those habitually Bankrupt losers.... AKA US Air. (east). Nic is unavoidable in the long term and any form of compromise from the west has long since sailed.

 

[eaglesview]

Your very welcome. I am proud to show my colors and support the professional pilots of my airline, US Airways, and of this country. I hope you can see your way fit to rejoin the brotherhood.

Denny

Scabbing supports your pilots and the profession?? With friends like you........

 

[Captzaahlie]

By the sounds of things on this thread there are plenty. Seem to by mostly out west.

A lot of memories of "high school" behavior too.......

 

[Tejas-Jet]

USAPA is not a Union.

Funny....Doug Parker and the NMB seem to think so....

Maybe you should take the time to call Parker and the NMB and let them know.

 

[MCDU]

Parker just made lot of money. He bought stock when it was around 2 bucks. Now its almost at 8.
LCC up 16% today.

M

 

[PHXFLYR]

I do not give rides to scabs, end of story. On the other hand I don't care if you are USAPA, ALPA, SWAPA, even non union. I don't care if you are for or against Obama or McCain. I don't care about your race, religion, or sex. I will not take that into consideration when offering you a ride. Just no scabs.

By the tone set by the AWA side in this thread maybe I should double check when I have one looking for a ride.

Like to see the "tone set" by the UAL crowd when the group of "2712" pulls the rug out from underneath you and inserts their own union. Gonna be as smug then as you are now ? Something tells me you must be a real peach to fly with.

PHXFLYR

 

[Marko Ramius]

Strike? You got to be kidding me.
There isn't a mediator on either side of the house that would release USAPA for self help.

Why not? Think about it for a minute. Many in Congress and the White House feel that there are too many airlines-flawed thinking because the capacity won't really depart with the airlines but it is how they feel. USAPA is a weak, undercapitalized union, unaffiliated with AFL-CIO, that is in 'control' of an incredibly fractious group of pilots in a time where there is an increasing surplus of available pilots due to the economy. It would be a bloodbath resulting in Airways going out of business or a strike settlement contract that would have everyone crying for the 'good 'ol days' of 2001-2008. Either way Washington would be happy with the result with little political capital expended.

 

[Caspian27]

Eaglesview,

Either you're ex-AAA or you've been living on Mars for the past 3 years with the attitude you have towards the HP pilots.

 

[El Pobre]

And yet the east pilots heavily involved in USAPA just can't understand why they are viewed as the pariah's of the commercial airline industry. Don't believe me? How about some UAL, SWA, FedEx, NWA, DAL, CAL, et al guys and gals weigh in??

OK....At FEDEX, unless you we're grandfathered in as a non-member before the last contract, you would indeed get fired for failing to pay dues to ALPA. Plain and simple...

 

[BeCareful!]

""""It is not doing anything remotely salient to being a true union."""


That's just stupid. Denny, you're living a very special fantasy, and posting it on the Internet will probably embarrass you some day (soon.)

Far from the industry wide anger you and yours say is directed to US Airways' pilots new, independent union, every member of CAPA recently called USAPA to see how they could help with the Captain's Authority issue. There are other, very union like things going on, and USAPA is even trying to represent you guys with contract parity on EVLA and trying to mitigate all furloughs. These are union actions that your beloved ALPA would have only talked about....you know, the strongly worded letters to management and all.

So, post away and keep your head in the sand. USAPA is up and running and facing a difficult, uphill battle just as every other union is these days. None of us want to take anything that was ever truly yours, but final or binding or bondage or whatever you want to call it, Nicolau was out of his freekin' mind and the majority of US Airways pilot won't put up with it. Beyond that, we are all just trying to make our world a better place. Oooommmmm.....Ooooommmmmm.