well that was quick.....

[squonk]

And yet, I still dislike the union. I dislike the us versus them mentality, the aggressive postings on sites like this which are designed to drive honest dissenters away. Wolfpackpilot doesn't post here any more because of it. He is the only guy here, by the way, who knows who I am. Which is just one of the line pilots. Representing only myself, although most of my colleagues on the IV (former NJI, not the newer NJA transfers) and V agree with me, they just don't have the energy to debate you morons. We discuss this stuff on the road incessantly, and are very worried y'all will render NJA uncompetitive.

No Wolfie doesn't post here anymore or the union board for that matter after he went live on TV to speculate on a King Air accident using the company name to lend gravitas. Not because of "aggressive postings" on this site or especially our home site.

Wolfie didn't mind mixing it up "aggressively" on here and never backed down from a challenge from what I remember.

FWIW, I appreciated Wolfie's perspective and he was one of a few who seemed to reach across the divide when it was a contentious divided house. I wish he would become active again.

 

[imacdog]

I forgot about when Billy did that, haha

 

[G4dude]

No Wolfie doesn't post here anymore or the union board for that matter after he went live on TV to speculate on a King Air accident using the company name to lend gravitas. Not because of "aggressive postings" on this site or especially our home site.

Wolfie didn't mind mixing it up "aggressively" on here and never backed down from a challenge from what I remember.

FWIW, I appreciated Wolfie's perspective and he was one of a few who seemed to reach across the divide when it was a contentious divided house. I wish he would become active again.

Yeah, he was fun.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

I want you to give me solid evidence instead of innuendo as to how the contract is harming the company. Is it the 401k match?

I want you to give me solid evidence instead of innuendo as to how the contract is harming the company.

You skipped the labor relations class in college, eh? Nothing I say is new, the history of labor relations speaks for itself.

Here is your class (I'll save you some money)

Union holds company hostage for a contract, economy hiccups after an insane contract is agreed upon, labor doesn't act fast enough because they are too damn stupid to understand that business needs to react quickly to save jobs/customers, carrier gets forced into bankruptcy/near bankruptcy or out of business, everybody gets hurt, managment gets blamed for not being able work around the insane contract, union opens contract at the 11th hour (usually right before the company either goes out of business or the bankruptcy judge gets it to modify the terms via a court order, entire company gets restructured, airline returns to break even/profitability. Cycle returns to step one.

In the meantime non-union or lightly unionized carriers chug along with minimal issues, passengers are happy, employees are happy and union mongers like you just do your job and enjoy life.

How much more evidence do you need?

Right now NJ is at the point where the CBA is creating a mess to the point of which it needs to be fixed. The union will continue to stick their head in the sand, more pilots will get furloughed (probably several more times) and NJ will slip to the point of which the company's existence is threatened, the potential for a major issue will happen, and at the 11th hour one union leader will pull their head out of the sand and do something about the contract.

None of this is new, it's all the same. There isn't a single thing on this board that is new, kids like you think you are inventing the wheel.

I do find it funny when somebody takes pilot salaries and multiplies it to come up with an estimated amount of pilot cost. They totally ignore things like training, work rules, benefits, payroll taxes etc. which add another 60% or more to the cost. That 100,000 a year pilot (in regards to payroll) will cost the company $160,000 a year. So before you go thinking that it's all about payroll, you're wrong. Then again, that's a common theme, you're supporting a union.

 

[B19 Flyer]

tell them you want a pay cut....


yeah thats what i thought.lol

Broke, that has happened on rare occasion in this industry, and when it does happen the carrier has saved jobs.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

G4, reread my post #152. I didn't pull that number out of my arse. At 100k each, that's 300 pilot salaries. It wasn't the union who cost the company in years past.

Ah, there is is...I knew it was here someplace. Change that number to $160,000 to include benefits, taxes, work rules and training, etc... you're number will be a little closer to reality. Those are fixed costs based on the CBA. Management has nothing to say about it.

 

[imacdog]

Always humorous to watch the management FI spin cycle swing into gear. Family Guy, NJACrewservicer, B19, etc. Contract negotiations haven't even opened yet and the stooges are already out of the woodwork.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

Without a union, can you imagine nearly 3000 individual employees negotiating for themselves? Merit based pay for a highly skilled group like ours is unattainable.

Pretty much every company with more than 3000 employess seems to pull it off. Are you implying that pilots are not smart enough to negotiate on their own?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

Always humorous to watch the management FI spin cycle swing into gear. Family Guy, NJACrewservicer, B19, etc. Contract negotiations haven't even opened yet and the stooges are already out of the woodwork.

This has always been for my enjoyment IMAC. I think all of you union mongers are idiots and mindless freaks that can't think on their own to control their own career. They need others to speak for them.

I just thought I'd have some fun explaining some known and historical facts to some of the kids that have obviously been drinking the rah-rah-sis-boom-bah kool-aide.

I've always been fascinated by those union supporters that go into managment positions and once there and they see the reality and hate the union more than anybody else. Happens time and time again. It's like once they come over to the real world, the eyes open and they see just how poor unions treat the members.

 

[imacdog]

You mean failed pilots like yourself, B?

 

[brokeflyer]

Broke, that has happened on rare occasion in this industry, and when it does happen the carrier has saved jobs.

yes i know....at the same time management pays themselves a huge bonus.

kinda like the same thing congress is doing. sad really.

 

[brokeflyer]

you're not gonna find a lotta sympathy for any company from a pilot. Pilots are the skilled, educated experts at the business at hand. They expect and deserve to paid accordingly. If its from a union or proper management, one way or another they will get it.


pay your employees a fair wage with proper work conditions and you will have a good balance. the problem is management takes, takes, takes and then acts suprised when a union shows up. I dont really care for unions myself, but if it wasnt for a union, the skilled experts would be no different than a 10 year old Philippine kid making jeans.

sorry that upsets you but i dont make the rules.

 

[imacdog]

Or put another way, a pilot can move into management without anything stopping them. A manager cannot simply decide to become a pilot and do so professionally the next day. Kind of answers the question on which job requires what skill.

 

[squonk]

B19 posted: Union holds company hostage for a contract, economy hiccups after an insane contract is agreed upon, labor doesn't act fast enough because they are too damn stupid to understand that business needs to react quickly to save jobs/customers, carrier gets forced into bankruptcy/near bankruptcy or out of business, everybody gets hurt, managment gets blamed for not being able work around the insane contract, union opens contract at the 11th hour (usually right before the company either goes out of business or the bankruptcy judge gets it to modify the terms via a court order, entire company gets restructured, airline returns to break even/profitability. Cycle returns to step one.

Nice little diatribe, but that's not really what has transpired at NJA now is it? It never ceases to amaze at your slight of hand of explaining our situation! Wherever you're getting your info is stale.

 

[KiddDynomite]

Nice little diatribe, but that's not really what has transpired at NJA now is it? It never ceases to amaze at your slight of hand of explaining our situation! Wherever you're getting your info is stale.

That was funny because he couldn't even cite the specifics I asked him for. I also enjoyed his, "kid" comment. Let's see I have been on this board way longer, have over 25 years experience in aviation, worked my way up from the bottom and probably have more time from the outer marker inbound than he has total. I love how they have to try and demean you. Good stuff. Give us specifics B19. You won't because if you do it will reveal that your management and just trolling on here to spread your FUD. It's truly pathetic when all you can do is come up with some business school scenario about the destructiveness of unions. I'm sure you think Wolfe, Ornstein and Lorenzo were great leaders in the aviation industry and it was all the unions' fault at their respective companies. I am far from a union fanatic but I would sure never work another aviation job without one. The worst ones I ever had were at non-union carries. Sorry but need to go do your job and run the company if that's what you do.