well that was quick.....

[fischman]

I'm just really worried about the economy and it's effect on the company. If the company atrophies, so do our jobs. No self worth problems here, although it is ironic, I get accused of selfishness AND feelings of low self worth. Kinda hard to suffer from both personality faults.

A Berkshire Hathaway company going bankrupt? Is that what you're saying? Dude. NetJets is going to be here for a long time, although it may not be the NetJets we know today.

Being selfish creates a desire to increase your self worth. You need low self worth to achieve this. Very easy to suffer both faults.

 

[G4dude]

A Berkshire Hathaway company going bankrupt? Is that what you're saying? Dude. NetJets is going to be here for a long time, although it may not be the NetJets we know today.

Being selfish creates a desire to increase your self worth. You need low self worth to achieve this. Very easy to suffer both faults.

It must be wonderful to go through life believing all who disagree with you do so because of ulterior motives. It could never be a genuine difference of opinion while agreeing about the problem, in good faith.

 

[G4dude]

G4...

Can you show us an example of pilots giving concessions and it saving jobs?
Just one example will do...

As far as I know it has never kept the company from continuing with furloughs.

Delta Airlines. Even if a company furloughs because of a bad economy, concessions save the jobs of most. Companies don't inevitably last forever, look at GM. (Until the government bought controlling interest, which is another conversation.) I am not always for concessions, but we are looking at several hard years worldwide, and we better face reality. To all those who want to "shut it down" over scope, I plead with you to just quit, find that other better job, and leave the rest of our jobs alone.

 

[pilotyip]

Delta Airlines. Even if a company furloughs because of a bad economy, concessions save the jobs of most. Companies don't inevitably last forever, look at GM. (Until the government bought controlling interest, which is another conversation.) I am not always for concessions, but we are looking at several hard years worldwide, and we better face reality. To all those who want to "shut it down" over scope, I plead with you to just quit, find that other better job, and leave the rest of our jobs alone.

When management faces too many headaches running a business, they try to fix these. If they can not fix them, they either sell the comapny or close it. A militant work force is the source of one of those headaches. NJ is still one of the best jobs in the country. This sounds a lot like we used to see about the major airline pilot never giving any concessions prior to 9-11.

 

[G4dude]

When management faces too many headaches running a business, they try to fix these. If they can not fix them, they either sell the comapny or close it. A militant work force is the source of one of those headaches. NJ is still one of the best jobs in the country. This sounds a lot like we used to see about the major airline pilot never giving any concessions prior to 9-11.

Where were you while I was defending our honor? Thanks for entering the fray and letting the union guys know I am not the only dissenter to Luthi's ravings.

 

[imacdog]

Concessions are not required because the company is profitable at this time. Period. Careful listening to YIP, he's still proud that he starts his pilots at 35K.

 

[KiddDynomite]

G4,

I am definitely not a union loonie but someone who walks the middle road and looks at the facts. The company has good sell off language now and it's 11 days per quarter. Do you ever look at the ops schedule and see what days are green, yellow or red? We have very few yellow or red days where sell offs are needed. The intent is clear and concise this is OUTSOURCING our jobs. If this was a question of a pay or a benefits cut sure bring it and we'll talk about it but it has nothing to do with saving this company! Put the koolaid down. Yes Luthi has his shortcomings and there will always be a bit of drama on both ends to push their respective agendas but when it comes to scope we cannot budge! Do you not see what is going on? They are selling the older aircraft and putting them under the steed of EJM. Not only that but this is the biggest thing that I think a lot of people are missing, they are also parking many airframes but still selling shares on them. They are simply trying to operate with fewer active aircraft therefore they need the coverage because they are being less than forthright in their method of operation. Once again they are parking planes and selling the shares and operating less airframes. With those planes parked they're able to show reduced maintence costs, up the usage number on the planes that are being operated and thereby cook the books for WB. We have rookies running the show. I can talk about working with them on anything else except scope. If they truly need the money they would be asking for concessions not scope. They are shifting the flying and they want to get away from the fractional model and be a management company. It's pretty clear. Give in on nothing, save your money and dust off the resume because they are not serious about making this place successful! If they were, they would take the measures necessary not play games out of Sokol's playbook! No offense intended.

 

[Hogprint]

Delta Airlines. Even if a company furloughs because of a bad economy, concessions save the jobs of most. Companies don't inevitably last forever, look at GM. (Until the government bought controlling interest, which is another conversation.) I am not always for concessions, but we are looking at several hard years worldwide, and we better face reality. To all those who want to "shut it down" over scope, I plead with you to just quit, find that other better job, and leave the rest of our jobs alone.

Now expand on that Delta example. Didn't a large portion of the pilots take early outs that softened the blow? Were there not some other mitigating circumstances that make this an apples to oranges comparison? This is saving jobs? This was after this... Once you start giving things away you just have to keep on giving as the Delta example shows.

I agree to a certain point that we may be looking at hard years ahead depending on the political winds a blowing. I also don't think it will ever get to a "shut it down" situation IMO.

As to quitting and getting that better job, I think the ball is in your court on that count. If the former NJI attitude is still prevalent then I would think there would be a run on those "better" jobs out of your ranks rather than put up with the bad scary union.

 

[gunfyter]

All the economists and experts are predicting bad times... Therefore I believe the opposite will happen....

 

[G4dude]

G4,

I am definitely not a union loonie but someone who walks the middle road and looks at the facts. The company has good sell off language now and it's 11 days per quarter. Do you ever look at the ops schedule and see what days are green, yellow or red? We have very few yellow or red days where sell offs are needed. The intent is clear and concise this is OUTSOURCING our jobs. If this was a question of a pay or a benefits cut sure bring it and we'll talk about it but it has nothing to do with saving this company! Put the koolaid down. Yes Luthi has his shortcomings and there will always be a bit of drama on both ends to push their respective agendas but when it comes to scope we cannot budge! Do you not see what is going on? They are selling the older aircraft and putting them under the steed of EJM. Not only that but this is the biggest thing that I think a lot of people are missing, they are also parking many airframes but still selling shares on them. They are simply trying to operate with fewer active aircraft therefore they need the coverage because they are being less than forthright in their method of operation. Once again they are parking planes and selling the shares and operating less airframes. With those planes parked they're able to show reduced maintence costs, up the usage number on the planes that are being operated and thereby cook the books for WB. We have rookies running the show. I can talk about working with them on anything else except scope. If they truly need the money they would be asking for concessions not scope. They are shifting the flying and they want to get away from the fractional model and be a management company. It's pretty clear. Give in on nothing, save your money and dust off the resume because they are not serious about making this place successful! If they were, they would take the measures necessary not play games out of Sokol's playbook! No offense intended.

No offense taken! I admire your passion, but disagree with your conclusions about management's motivations. Lets see what happens, I think Luthi loves to stir the pot, and don't believe much of what he says.