well that was quick.....

[KiddDynomite]

Its a shame the furloughees get to hear about this on FI instead of a unified union board.

It is a shame but no one is talking about the real problem and that's the economy. The money to buy into our service is no longer there or they are not spending it. Our country is heading for a very bad place and that's the real issues. We can talk about contracts all we want but the American empire is failing. The managemnt team is just trying to take all they can for themselves and line their life boat before the ship sinks. The problem is we're all going to be left in the cold water without a life preserver.

 

[gret]

I personally don't want to engage in any form of busting. I want to see NJA thrive and not just survive. It has the potential to be a great job. The problem is two fold, the current managment team does not see the pilot group as allies but as enemies. Management is sticking to the tried and failed concept of lead by decree and intimidation not by respect. They see the union and our contract as an obstacle. The other problem is we are in a failing economy and sales are not there. Now if management communicated this to the pilot group and viewed the union as a partner to service our clients and work together through these difficult times things would be much better. The problem is they are choosing the failed idea of attacking our contract. It really does not matter if sales or flying are down, the pilot group are the frontline service providers who operate in a demanding environment and we do beyond an excellent job doing it! If they need to furlough more than do it, concessions never save jobs. I for one am tired of working in an adversarial enviroment where everything is about reprisals. It takes away from our ability to safely operate. This management team needs to start doing just that, manage this company and enable us to continue to provide the excellent service we pilots do to the people who can afford it!

Nice post.

 

[G4dude]

CE750Driver, I found it, it is in the "Union Busting 101" thread. First page Luthi talks about at least a 10% cut in operations and the company going for a 30% cut in pay and benefits. Time for this group to light a fire under the sales department!

In which struggling economy should the Sales department "light the fire?" Cheers!

 

[G4dude]

I know we are having a private conversation in a public form, and doing anything that does not support the theme of the thread is often severely frowned upon. All that being said, does anyone care about company busting? You know the union adage of "More pay and more days off" until you have all your days off with no pay. However only my experience in union operations.

Bravo.

 

[G4dude]

I personally don't want to engage in any form of busting. I want to see NJA thrive and not just survive. It has the potential to be a great job. The problem is two fold, the current managment team does not see the pilot group as allies but as enemies. Management is sticking to the tried and failed concept of lead by decree and intimidation not by respect. They see the union and our contract as an obstacle. The other problem is we are in a failing economy and sales are not there. Now if management communicated this to the pilot group and viewed the union as a partner to service our clients and work together through these difficult times things would be much better. The problem is they are choosing the failed idea of attacking our contract. It really does not matter if sales or flying are down, the pilot group are the frontline service providers who operate in a demanding environment and we do beyond an excellent job doing it! If they need to furlough more than do it, concessions never save jobs. I for one am tired of working in an adversarial enviroment where everything is about reprisals. It takes away from our ability to safely operate. This management team needs to start doing just that, manage this company and enable us to continue to provide the excellent service we pilots do to the people who can afford it!

Concessions do save jobs if they keep the company from going out of business, in my opinion.

 

[G4dude]

We are operationally profitable. We are doing our part. The owners love us. We deserve to keep our jobs. We deserve to keep our CBA in tact.

Why do you have such a low self worth?

I'm just really worried about the economy and it's effect on the company. If the company atrophies, so do our jobs. No self worth problems here, although it is ironic, I get accused of selfishness AND feelings of low self worth. Kinda hard to suffer from both personality faults.

 

[gunfyter]

Concessions do save jobs if they keep the company from going out of business, in my opinion.

I don't think anybody disagrees with that ...

But I do not see how it applies to us. We won't be going out of business... and if we do ... it won't be because of Scope.

 

[Hogprint]

Really? I am horrified. In this economy, you would really rather lose your jobs than give in on scope? With all due respect, I feel y'all haven't thought this through. I absolutely would rather give in on something (like scope, maybe) than become unemployed. This is not a proposed negotiating position from me, just a philosophical observation. I also feel strongly that most pilots do NOT share your views, although I thank you for expressing them intelligently and civilly.

G4...

Can you show us an example of pilots giving concessions and it saving jobs?
Just one example will do...

As far as I know it has never kept the company from continuing with furloughs.

 

[KiddDynomite]

G4,

The economy is struggling and sales are definitely affected by it but I also believe there is a concerted effort not to sell shares and to move the used airframes to EJM. There is a serious effort to eliminate aircraft and that is undeniable. Concessions may save a company that is going down but it's only tempory. Slice your arm to the artery and direct pressure will only stop the bleeding for a little while because you need stitches. The doctor is not stiching our wounds! They have a very workable scope clause now in fact it truly favors the company and not our side. They can sell off more than 11 days per quarter with a small financial penalty. What they are after is to simply undermine our contract. The current leadership hates having a union. That's the truth. I would be more than willing to take a pay cut or contribute to my benenfits if I thought it would truly help or bring guys back but it won't. I went long enough without because this pilot group was significantly under paid. Now we are almost comensurate with where we should be and they want to take it away not to save the company but to outsource our jobs and simply prove a point. Yes the economy is a major factor but that doesn't change the worth of this pilot group and the job it performs. If it's with a smaller NJA because of true shrinkage so be it. I say we stand firm. This isn't personal because I thnk we see eye to eye on many things but they truly don't need scope relief. They have a workable agreement, it's about doing more with less. They're just playing a shell game to show more profits, pure and simple.

 

[CE750Driver]

This stuff truly cracks me up! Let's for one minute stop talking s@!t about NJA, scope, pay and drawing lines in the sand and look at reality. The reality is the people who are our clients no longer have the money to buy. It's that simple. Once we get past that fact then we can talk about the rest. I hate to say the 495 are NOT coming back. It's that simple. Luthi stated the company is going to keep shrinking over the next ten years. I would read that a 30-50% reduction over the next 3-5 years! That's the reality. We can talk all we want but that's the barrel of the gun we're looking down.

I personally think the best thing that can happen is we get sold. Then again there's nothing to sell except a few hangars and a clapped out core fleet. The company is a shell. We don't own 400 airplanes, the clients do. Sure we have the Marquis airframes but they're worth squat.

There's not going to be a turn around here. Wake up and smell the coffee! The whole country is heading for financial disaster and we're just a small portion. The sooner you guys learn that the better and the better you will be prepared.

As far as concessions, we provide valuable skills to the clients, the ones who remain should pay for them. Simple as that. Concessions and continued cuts are not going to save NJA. A change in the model and airplane sales will. I don't see that happening under this management or economy anytime soon.

Sorry dude. Just read that thread, and you are leaving out alot. First of all, no where, does Luthi state, "the company is going to keep shrinking for 10 years". As you say he said. Second the 10 percent cut in core fleet is his estimate, if we give up on 1.5.

Twisted words at best.