well that was quick.....

[squonk]

That little gem of a NJ crooked management team is killing the company isn't it?

There. Fixed it for ya!

 

[B19 Flyer]

I personally don't want to engage in any form of busting. I want to see NJA thrive and not just survive. It has the potential to be a great job. The problem is two fold, the current managment team does not see the pilot group as allies but as enemies. Management is sticking to the tried and failed concept of lead by decree and intimidation not by respect. They see the union and our contract as an obstacle. The other problem is we are in a failing economy and sales are not there. Now if management communicated this to the pilot group and viewed the union as a partner to service our clients and work together through these difficult times things would be much better. The problem is they are choosing the failed idea of attacking our contract. It really does not matter if sales or flying are down, the pilot group are the frontline service providers who operate in a demanding environment and we do beyond an excellent job doing it! If they need to furlough more than do it, concessions never save jobs. I for one am tired of working in an adversarial enviroment where everything is about reprisals. It takes away from our ability to safely operate. This management team needs to start doing just that, manage this company and enable us to continue to provide the excellent service we pilots do to the people who can afford it!

Too funny.... Do you really believe this?

The contract is an obstacle. Try and get rid of your cell phone early and see what the penalty is so you can save a few bucks on your bill. Think that's aggravating? Try doing that with a union contract that is way overpriced.

 

[squonk]

Let's see, we had FamilyGuy for the '05 contract who managed to go away after it was signed. Then we had B19 for the FLOPS battle who has gone away after their contract was signed.

Now that management wants to open up Section 6 next year, ALL OF THE SUDDEN G4 comes out of the woodwork.

Yeah... No ulterior motives. We are smarter than that. Please don't insult our intelligence. This is an OLD union busting tactic that we don't fall for.

Yep. Nice sleuth work fisch. Notice how G4 canvases every thread and never fails to get the anti-union dig in...even going so far to answer every post darn near! Just like our aforementioned buddies from days gone past.

I do encourage it though. Keeps our debating skills sharp!

 

[gutshotdraw]

I hadn't heard that because I don't have access to the big boy board. Good for them though, hopefully they found good work.

One of our ( now former ) HUGE moneybag clients that got tired of being told NO and bought their own G-550. The rest of the family will be departing the pattern as well when their contracts expire ( so I'm told ).



And it wasn't on the " big boy board." NJI types don't post there. Small wonder.

 

[OPECJet]

Yep. Nice sleuth work fisch. Notice how G4 canvases every thread and never fails to get the anti-union dig in...even going so far to answer every post darn near! Just like our aforementioned buddies from days gone past.

I do encourage it though. Keeps our debating skills sharp!

Eyer or Noe. Even if he isn't one of those two, they can put it in their file that Sir Opecjet says to kiss his foot. Butt snorkleing morons.... (ask your Navy buds what that is if you don't know. I don't want to be accused of throwing innuendo around again).

 

[KiddDynomite]

Too funny.... Do you really believe this?

The contract is an obstacle. Try and get rid of your cell phone early and see what the penalty is so you can save a few bucks on your bill. Think that's aggravating? Try doing that with a union contract that is way overpriced.

Sorry B19 I'm not taking the bait! I posted truth and if a management troll like yourself can't handle it tough. We're in a weak economy with a model that has run it's course. If NJA needs to furlough then furlough! They don't need to keep threatening and picking a fight. The Globals are a carrot and I truly believe that there is no one in management with the ability to right this ship.The attacks on the union and the pilot group prove this. I want you to give me solid evidence instead of innuendo as to how the contract is harming the company. Is it the 401k match? Okay let's negotiate a deal then. Is it healthcare? Another easy negotiation. Is it pay? There's another. What is it exactly? Oh I know your answer, SCOPE. Sorry that, BS isn't going to fly. You people simply want to downsize and outsource. Guess what you might as well close the doors because customers want to ride in their own aircraft with gold ties not mom and pop charter. Nice try though. Try actually running the company. How about retooling operations and making it efficient. Yeah that would be a good start. That won't happen though because we have to make this a battle to cover your own incompetence as a manager.

 

[dime line]

It was never about the FLOPS contract which was a joke when compared to what it could have been had the union negotiated in good faith instead of dragging it out.

what an fing idiot

 

[bluepost]

I love the job, dislike the union. Planning to stay, but the job was better before the union sucked us in.

"THE UNION" got you your 7 and 7 schedule, holiday pay, OT, protected your zero premium health care and 401k contributions.

 

[Grizz]

Why are guys arguing with this troll? You feed a troll and he just keeps coming back. He can't scare up a set of cojones to post using his real name - therefore to me - his posted opinion is absolutely worthless. Treat it as such, ignore his ignorant ass and he'll go away.

 

[B19 Flyer]

what an fing idiot

Still at it, eh Dimeline? So, is that Beavis or Butthead, never could tell them apart. Contract sucks, doesn't it? Blame your representation.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

Sorry B19 I'm not taking the bait! I posted truth and if a management troll like yourself can't handle it tough. We're in a weak economy with a model that has run it's course. If NJA needs to furlough then furlough! They don't need to keep threatening and picking a fight. The Globals are a carrot and I truly believe that there is no one in management with the ability to right this ship.The attacks on the union and the pilot group prove this. I want you to give me solid evidence instead of innuendo as to how the contract is harming the company. Is it the 401k match? Okay let's negotiate a deal then. Is it healthcare? Another easy negotiation. Is it pay? There's another. What is it exactly? Oh I know your answer, SCOPE. Sorry that, BS isn't going to fly. You people simply want to downsize and outsource. Guess what you might as well close the doors because customers want to ride in their own aircraft with gold ties not mom and pop charter. Nice try though. Try actually running the company. How about retooling operations and making it efficient. Yeah that would be a good start. That won't happen though because we have to make this a battle to cover your own incompetence as a manager.

You're a newbe so I'll fill you in on one of my primary complaints about unions.

Unions claim they are there to support the brotherhood with jobs but never hesitate to sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority list to save the wages of the top. Instead of opening the contract to save jobs, they will furlough instead. You see, this is why I stopped posting. The rhetoric never changes... squeeze that golden goose till it chokes to death and ruins everything around it for everybody but blame managment rather than themselves.

It's clear though, you've been drinking the Kool-aide. (What flavor is it this time Grizz?) You know all the stuff I've said has cycled through, right Grizz? How many more jobs will be sacrificed Grizz before the contract is opened and those families can depend on those jobs? Union promised job security, right? Furloughs won't get it done Grizz.. need to open the contract to reduce cost.

Here's your boy here saying they should furlough or close the doors. Bet that leaves a warm and fuzzy with the bottom third of the list!

 

[Pervis]

Top ten took a combined $30 MILLION pay cut when DS took over, and those positions are still filled. Who choked the goose then, the pilots? Hardly.

 

[KiddDynomite]

Why are guys arguing with this troll? You feed a troll and he just keeps coming back. He can't scare up a set of cojones to post using his real name - therefore to me - his posted opinion is absolutely worthless. Treat it as such, ignore his ignorant ass and he'll go away.

Hey Griz,

You're absolutely right, the guy's a troll. I love these management types or lackies and how they have to cover their incompetence by pushing the blame on a contract that was agreed too. No one put a gun to management's head when it was signed. Pathetic. By the way he never did post the specifics that I asked him to. Once again, pathetic.

 

[CA1900]

Unions claim they are there to support the brotherhood with jobs but never hesitate to sacrifice the bottom third of the seniority list to save the wages of the top.

And yet, the NetJets pilot union did exactly what was needed when asked by the company. It was only when the insider-trading slimeball was brought in that these voluntary measures were replaced with furloughs.

The pilots and the union did their part -- management didn't.

Furloughs won't get it done Grizz.. need to open the contract to reduce cost.

Here's your boy here saying they should furlough or close the doors. Bet that leaves a warm and fuzzy with the bottom third of the list!

I'm at the bottom of that bottom third, and I agree with it. I don't want a "fuzzy." I want pay and benefits commensurate with the service I provide. If I wanted a secure but low-paying, crappy-benefits job, I'd be at the regionals.

We're still underpaid for the service and wealth of experience we provide our owners. I'm not willing to take a concession to subsidize private jet travel.

Welcome back from your hiatus, by the way. :laugh:

 

[BentOver]

It's always an accomplishment when management spends time on a pilot msg. board. I get gratification knowing they are that pathetic to spend their time trying their best to blame the Unions on the companies plight!!

It means they are really that inept at their jobs and have no other resources available to them to increase business. They are out of coherent ideas and have nothing left but to try to blame the Union so they can try to save their own jobs.

"Oh Mr. Buffett..It was that darn Union that kept me from selling shares and turning this place around after 3+ years. They just wouldn't let us decrease their pay/scope/benefits/work rules whenever we wanted to. I mean, they don't have families to support or any sort of job expectations.. They're the one to blame, not me sir....."

 

[G4dude]

"THE UNION" got you your 7 and 7 schedule, holiday pay, OT, protected your zero premium health care and 401k contributions.

And yet, I still dislike the union. I dislike the us versus them mentality, the aggressive postings on sites like this which are designed to drive honest dissenters away. Wolfpackpilot doesn't post here any more because of it. He is the only guy here, by the way, who knows who I am. Which is just one of the line pilots. Representing only myself, although most of my colleagues on the IV (former NJI, not the newer NJA transfers) and V agree with me, they just don't have the energy to debate you morons. We discuss this stuff on the road incessantly, and are very worried y'all will render NJA uncompetitive.

 

[Hogprint]

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]And yet, the NetJets pilot union did exactly what was needed when asked by the company. It was only when the insider-trading slimeball was brought in that these voluntary measures were replaced with furloughs.

The pilots and the union did their part -- management didn't.



I'm at the bottom of that bottom third, and I agree with it. I don't want a "fuzzy." I want pay and benefits commensurate with the service I provide. If I wanted a secure but low-paying, crappy-benefits job, I'd be at the regionals.

We're still underpaid for the service and wealth of experience we provide our owners. I'm not willing to take a concession to subsidize private jet travel.

Welcome back from your hiatus, by the way. :laugh:

That about sums it up I'd say! Great post CA1900! You'd think these management types would be embarrassed to even come on here in light of DS's very public insider trading scandal, yet they just cant help themselves!

Note to concern mang trolls...this tactic didn't work in '05,'07, and It isn't going to work in '11-'12.

 

[G4dude]

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]And yet, the NetJets pilot union did exactly what was needed when asked by the company. It was only when the insider-trading slimeball was brought in that these voluntary measures were replaced with furloughs.

The pilots and the union did their part -- management didn't.



I'm at the bottom of that bottom third, and I agree with it. I don't want a "fuzzy." I want pay and benefits commensurate with the service I provide. If I wanted a secure but low-paying, crappy-benefits job, I'd be at the regionals.

We're still underpaid for the service and wealth of experience we provide our owners. I'm not willing to take a concession to subsidize private jet travel.

Welcome back from your hiatus, by the way. :laugh:

Our competitors can staff with equally good pilots at 60 percent of the cost. How does NJA compete with that? Even if management were Einsteins, they would not be able to overcome such a structural disadvantage. Look at GM. Toyota had labor costs, in the US, of half what GM had, and union types were STILL saying GM's problems were poor management!

 

[G4dude]

That about sums it up I'd say! Great post CA1900! You'd think these management types would be embarrassed to even come on here in light of DS's very public insider trading scandal, yet they just cant help themselves!

Note to concern mang trolls...this tactic didn't work in '05,'07, and It isn't going to work in '11-'12.

You are going to drive us out of business, I'm afraid. Job loss number 12 for me. What a shame. You union crazies are even crazier than I thought.

 

[Hogprint]

You are going to drive us out of business, I'm afraid. Job loss number 12 for me. What a shame. You union crazies are even crazier than I thought.

Let's review the track record again...

CA1900 posted it very eloquently. The pilots took early outs, LOA's, and reduced sched's to mitigate furloughs. We did what was asked.

The Management team brought (forced?) in slashed and burned (have you forgotten Black Thursday already?) and ultimately the brainchild had to step down in disgrace because of an insider trading scandal (Lubrizol anyone?).

Now either you're willingly glossing over the facts of our recent history or you're just ignorant of it. Which is it?