well that was quick.....

[G4dude]

you dont understand. What would you say if the company wanted to terminate you because they can get someone to fly your plane for $30k cheaper than they paid you? Or I should say, they can hire someone who negotiated a cheaper rate than you?

how would you feel about that?

We two have managed to be talking on two threads simultaneously! I would expect them to do just that, if it made them more profitable. The job belongs to the company, not to me. This job is a trade, freely agreed to by both parties, whereby I fly trips and they pay me for doing so. They owe me nothing more than payment for what I have already accomplished. If I want job security, to OWN the job, I would need to start my own company. So, you can certainly see why I don't spend time on the union message board.

 

[imacdog]

Really? Then what is the union's concern? What is the problem, specifically? I used to only not understand how unions think the way they do, now I don't even understand WHAT they are thinking.

The union's concern the the company's threats to either change the current furlough clause or they will furlough. If you don't understand what the union's concern is then go live in la la land and keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

It sounds, with 11 previous layoffs, that you've had a really horrible career thus far and that everything at NJA must be perfect compared with your previous operators. The union is trying to keep it that way.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

you dont understand. What would you say if the company wanted to terminate you because they can get someone to fly your plane for $30k cheaper than they paid you? Or I should say, they can hire someone who negotiated a cheaper rate than you?

how would you feel about that?

Probably the same way I would feel if a cheaper cell phone with equal service and plan came around.

If my company didn't want to lower the cost to be competitive, I'd have to go with the more affordable cell phone.

In today's economy, pilots are willing to fly for less because many of them simply want to work in their chosen fields. Doesn't mean they are not as good as a company pilot, just means that they are willing to work and feed their family.

If a company wanted to terminate me because they found a cheaper pilot, that would mean I'd need to lower my cost to be competitive. I'd rather be making less money than be unemployed.

It's a concept unions don't understand. They'd rather see everybody out of work instead.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

If a Union busting shop IS on the payroll it would have to be reported on financial statements from NJA...(I used to know what reports but it's been a while since I researched it)..

Of course it wouldn't be titled "Union BUSTING legal firm". It would show up as "Labor relations something-or-other"

I believe a youtube of the "Union busting 101" guy will reveal what is reported. And then a quick google search gets you to the government website that has the reporting requirements, and what forms are in play...

Hope that made some sense..

Too funny!
:beer:

 

[brokeflyer]

We two have managed to be talking on two threads simultaneously! I would expect them to do just that, if it made them more profitable. The job belongs to the company, not to me. This job is a trade, freely agreed to by both parties, whereby I fly trips and they pay me for doing so. They owe me nothing more than payment for what I have already accomplished. If I want job security, to OWN the job, I would need to start my own company. So, you can certainly see why I don't spend time on the union message board.

so once again, ill put it another way so you understand. I know a guy that will fly your gulfstream for $20k per year. So you need to take a cut down to $19,000 per year or you will be out of work....and also you need to work 20 days per month now too.

how would you feel about that?

 

[jonjuan]

so once again, ill put it another way so you understand. I know a guy that will fly your gulfstream for $20k per year. So you need to take a cut down to $19,000 per year or you will be out of work....and also you need to work 20 days per month now too.

how would you feel about that?

Leave your kid outta this...

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

You didn't answer my question so I'll repeat it.

Can a professional pilot, with no prior management experience, be placed into a management position?

Can a manager, with no prior flight experience, be placed into a pilot position?

(same goes for mechanics and other highly trained, certified employees)

To give you a hint on the answer, do a search for the Delta bankruptcy talks in court on why pilots deserve the wages they make.

Then you can get back to me on whether you were right or not.

I have repeatedly seen pilots fail over and over moving into managment positions. The primary reason is that pilots do not think in "big picture", they think in the existing moment and are very good at managing multiple tasks in the moment, but are not good at seeing beyond flight by flight managment.

The exception is for military pilots that have learned through structured programs and have leadership training. As military pilots no longer are the majority of pilots, the former rather than the latter is fact.

If one was to take equal time to take over the qualities and skills of either profession ( a pilot to attain the knowledge commensurate with senior leadership (director or above) to be effective, a manager could be put through pilot training and be equally proficient in an equal amount of time.

The biggest humor of all, and one that almost never fails, is that when a pilot does grown nads large enough to try management they almost always discover how badly their union has treated them when they learn the truth and become ardent non union supporters.

 

[imacdog]

So there's two people that won't answer my question. Anyone out there that will?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Be careful what you ask for...

so once again, ill put it another way so you understand. I know a guy that will fly your gulfstream for $20k per year. So you need to take a cut down to $19,000 per year or you will be out of work....and also you need to work 20 days per month now too.

how would you feel about that?

In today's economy, I'll take the paycut if it means I keep my job and it prevents the competitor from taking away my job. If I do my job the way I'm trained, the money will return as the economy improves.

If I'm out of a job, then I get squat when the economy improves because I wasn't smart enough to see the big picture. In addition, because I took the paycut, it would mean that I helped to keep the company from going out of business.

 

[Hogprint]

So there's two people that won't answer my question. Anyone out there that will?

Don't hold your breath dog...

These two latest incarnations are just making stuff up now. Not dealing with facts but just the "what if's" of a doomsday scenario that wont happen. I think I'm going to follow Grizz's advice...