USAPA sues some America West Pilots

[PCL_128]

You really need to be cautious about those "bedrock principles" in the CoUS and the DoI, because, when you do the research, if you really care about it, you will find that those "bedrock principles" pretty much make you and me look pretty foolish, especially if you want to use them analogous with this situation.

Think about it.

T8

Care to elaborate? If you're merely talking about the seriousness of the two issues, then I see what you're saying, and I agree. It's obvious that the issues confronting the founders were far more serious, but the principles of equality, fairness, protection from an immoral majority, etc... are the same. It's the same principles on different scales.

 

[TWA Dude]

Having 5-8 yr AWA Capts pushing 20 yr USAIR vets out of their seniority, regardless of who bought who, is B.S.

Like many you confuse the concept of seniority versus longevity. In 2005 when the merger was announced the junior USAirways pilot had a DOH of 1986. That's right, after 19 years on the property he was junior. Translating that DOH over to AWA makes him in the top 5% at AWA. So really, DOH in this case is nothing but a wholesale slaughter of the AWA pilots' seniority.

Seniority counts at USAirways and seniority counts at AWA. Combining the two makes a new company and Nicolau fashioned a list whereby everybody keeps their premerger status. How is that not fair?

Be fair guys and give until it hurts or you will all get hurt.

What does that mean? It's already been proven that we'll never come to a consensual agreement on a seniority list so a neutral is the only way to go. And we went there.

Draw your own conclusions but the posters today appear to be a lot more aggressive and "lippy."

Whatever you say, grandpa.

 

[FR8mastr]

Seniority counts at USAirways and seniority counts at AWA. Combining the two makes a new company and Nicolau fashioned a list whereby everybody keeps their premerger status. How is that not fair? .

When in 10 years the seniority list looks exactly like the one you are so afraid of in reverse.
That is why attrition needed to play a role, it wasn't, so in 10 years the West will hold the majority of the Captain spots. Again this is the exact scenario that everyone out West is so up in arms about now with USAPA. This is exactly why we need fences

 

[PCL_128]

Draw your own conclusions but the posters today appear to be a lot more aggressive

I'm pretty sure that some of the CAL strikers that attempted to plant bombs and throw bricks through SCAB windows in '83 were a little more aggressive than some FI posters. I'm also pretty sure that the EAL strikers in Miami that practically started a riot in the streets when they were heckled by passers by were a little more aggressive than FI posters. And then there's the National Airlines pilots way back that got into fist fights in the cockpit with SCABs after the strike was over. That seems a lot more aggressive to me. Still think modern pilots are more aggressive than their predecessors? I think not. If anything, we've become far too soft.

 

[cactusboy53]

Wrong....that's just one APA member. Many APA and countless ALPA members (OK, more than two) have congratulated us on ridding ourselves of ALPA.

ALPA sucks. That's why they are no longer here. You should really get over it, PCL, especially since you work for a carrier that has no link to any of this, one with a large population of very questionable characters when it comes to organized labor, eh? You must really be in need of a life to spend so much time on this topic.

"We are worthy. We are able. We are entitled. We deserve this, and gosh darn it we like ourselves!"

Disclaimer: USAPA leaders / members are not licensed therapists or counselors, but are members of several multi-step programs

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I'm pretty sure that some of the CAL strikers that attempted to plant bombs and throw bricks through SCAB windows in '83 were a little more aggressive than some FI posters. I'm also pretty sure that the EAL strikers in Miami that practically started a riot in the streets when they were heckled by passers by were a little more aggressive than FI posters. And then there's the National Airlines pilots way back that got into fist fights in the cockpit with SCABs after the strike was over. That seems a lot more aggressive to me. Still think modern pilots are more aggressive than their predecessors? I think not. If anything, we've become far too soft.

And yet you said just a few post back that you flew with a 'scab' some time ago, and all you did is 'give him the silent treatment. Why did you beat the hell out of him??? You wimpy bastard, you are a disgrace to all unionism.

On a serious note, so you think that the AWA pilots should have riots in the streets of PHX, and start throwing bricks, even though there is NO strike??

Also, when are you going to start a vote drive to bring your beloved alpa into airtran?? After all, what have you had, two failed TAs, and no progress. I know you said before, you would love to have alpa, but the pilots there don't want it. Tell you what, start an organizational drive, have a vote; NPA or alpa, and you can see what the pilots decide?? Oh, that's right, I believe that is what the US Air/AWA pilots did, right?

PD

P.S. Also, FYI, to settle your misunderstanding from a previous thread; a friend of mine from airways, emailed me the letter that US Air V.P. of human resources sent to usapa, clearly stating that as per the CBAs (both agreements), and the company, there is a clear 'agency shop' agreement. Now, I hope that you call on all pilots to either pay union dues or the service fee, or as you said, the company should 'fire' them.

 

[cactusboy53]

"THE East does not want the WEST jobs! You can not say the same in reverse. I don't know how to make that any more clear."

WRONG. There are some west that live in the East that would love to cut the commute. There's about the same number of West coast Easties that would love to do the same.

I've met one from SAN. He would be in the top 10 in PHX. Imagine....NEVER working a Holiday, Birthday, Anniversary again. NEVER having to pay for a crashpad or hotel room again. 31 Days of vacation pay, FULL pay for mechanicals, FULL pay for deadheads, IV (150%) Pay for fixing crew staffing probems, 125% pay for voluteering to help out, better 401K contributions, and West pay or better.......Well, that was when LCC was making money last fall. Nearly all of the new contract was done save for financials.

We are looking at YEARS of segregation. Too bad.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Go Penguins!

The Penguins are a bunch of hacks.

 

[TWA Dude]

This is exactly why we need fences

First, you might have missed the shift since 1986: no more long-term fences. The Ozark and Rebublic integrations have gone on for decades causing continuous bitterness and disputes. Arbitrators now want everything completed in five years or less so we can all grieve and move on.

Second: fences don't change the fact that furloughs come based on seniority. A DOH integration makes AWA your furlough fodder and that's obviously unacceptable. As I've written before it's only fair for both sides to share the pain of furlough. In case you didn't know, furloughs at USAirways are imminent. It's up to management to decide and if they're smart they'll spread the pain proportionately.

 

[eaglesview]

"THE East does not want the WEST jobs! You can not say the same in reverse. I don't know how to make that any more clear."

WRONG. There are some west that live in the East that would love to cut the commute. There's about the same number of West coast Easties that would love to do the same.

I've met one from SAN. He would be in the top 10 in PHX. Imagine....NEVER working a Holiday, Birthday, Anniversary again. NEVER having to pay for a crashpad or hotel room again. 31 Days of vacation pay, FULL pay for mechanicals, FULL pay for deadheads, IV (150%) Pay for fixing crew staffing probems, 125% pay for voluteering to help out, better 401K contributions, and West pay or better.......Well, that was when LCC was making money last fall. Nearly all of the new contract was done save for financials.

We are looking at YEARS of segregation. Too bad.

Years of segregation..hmm sounds like exactly what the east wants.