Usapa Dfr

[FR8mastr]

I dont know if this is what he was talking about, but the only CR I know of was protection of the top guys until and if age 65 happened, it did, hence no protections.

 

[m80drvr]

Come on MCDOOOOOOOSSSHHHH............bag where are you?



Yes, the whole situation is tragic. AWA was a powerhouse and without the PHX and LAS hubs we out in the East would be doomed. (AWA competed successfully with SWA for years ....right up until they bought USAirways. Then they pull a PSA and claim they can't compete anymore)Thanks for saving us .
I think it is also fair to put guys who are in their late 50's with 17 years of continous service behind 2005 new hires without any C&R. (17 years at USAir got you bottom reserve in PHL, same relative position as a 1 year west pilot. Not the west's fault USAir has had poor management and an equally poor business plan)That snapshot in 2005 really was fair for us, since we would have liquidated like ALoha. (?????? What???) I believe the Nic is a great deal for us Easties who have less then 10 years left. ( Ohhhh I get it the west pilots should take it in the shorts because a 17 year fo didn't have the forsight to leave USAir for a better job when year 10 went by and he was still BOTTOM RESERVE FO. That's your problem MCDOOOOOOOSH.......bag, you and the angry fo club think you should have all the the wrongs in your career fixed at the expense of the west pilots. The conpany, industry, west pilots.....ect. owe you something because your careers have sucked at USAirways. Your careers have sucked bacause of bad management that robbed the company blind and that didn't have the forsight to expand beyond the east coast. If you have 10 years left and are still an fo that sucks but don't expect to have west pilots disrupt their careers to make you whole. Upgrades prior to the merger at AWA were running 6 years....how long was the upgrade time out on the east?.....23 years give or take a few. Actually you can't calculate it because they didn't upgrade for what 6 ears prior to the merger??)Thanks again AWA pilots for giving us jobs and saving us.

Now only if we can get that dam Nic list implemented so we can furlough Easties instead of Westies. (Yeah newhires should go before 4 year west pilots. Thanks for the understanding...maybe you are finally getting it.)

M

If 17 years of continous service at USAirways gets you BOTTON A320 RESERVE IN PHL, he deserves to get slotted right next to the BOTTON LAS RESERVE. Longevity and seniority are DOH three different things. Too bad your pilots tied the hands of your merger comittee with the DOH or bust mandate. But like Doug says "you get what you negotiate".

 

[m80drvr]

I dont know if this is what he was talking about, but the only CR I know of was protection of the top guys until and if age 65 happened, it did, hence no protections.

Read nic's comments as to why he didn't give more protections. Oh wait... the east won't post the whole award. Too much information might educate the masses..USAPA and the east reps wouldn't want that.

 

[retired guy]

Will someone please decypher the judge`s ruling for an old retired guy. I know both sides of the problem, so please, no editorials and no initials. Thanks

 

[Captzaahlie]

DCO.

How about Dues cut off???

Thats what it should be.......

 

[Bringupthebird]

Will someone please decypher the judge`s ruling for an old retired guy. I know both sides of the problem, so please, no editorials and no initials. Thanks

The prelim injunction was denied for 2 reasons: 1) the company would be punished for something USAPA was causing (downline effects of failing to support Nic)and 2) if the court was found to not have jurisdiction in the case and they later had to recind the Prelim injunction, the company might suffer financial harm.

USAPA agreed to let a single neutral hear a grievance filed by a west pilot rather than the conventional system board, since the union reps on the system board would be unlikely to support something aimed at them.

The DFR case was going to be fast-tracked so as to mitigate further negative effects of the out-of-seniority furloughs (based on Nic).

Editorial: The judge was tipping his hand as to what he felt the germane issues were and what could be the outcome (money damages) with the hope that USAPA would see the hand writing on the wall and abandon DOH and adopt Nic on their own. Once the DOH is eliminated the west will join with the east and work toward building a better contract. Retaining DOH as the holy grail only makes their eventual pyrrhic victory that much more difficult.

At least that's how I read it.

 

[OnTheDole]

Will someone please decypher the judge`s ruling for an old retired guy. I know both sides of the problem, so please, no editorials and no initials. Thanks

I think the judge basically said that its obvious the USAPA foundation is a screw job of the AWA guys but he can't stop the out of senority furloughs /downgrades (no company injunction)because USAPA is allowing the company to do them - with that in mind however... USAPA is liable for damages ($) associated with their actions (or inactions). Oh and DOH with their C&R's is laughable.

USAPAs going to lose their ass in this and the members are going to pay for it assesments.

In the interim Parker is loving every day the east operates under their LOA-POS

Cheers

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

These East people are so clueless that this would be funny if the whole situation wasn't so sad.

 

[retired guy]

Thanks...I`ll tune in for the next episode......

 

[weasel_lips]

Thanks...I`ll tune in for the next episode......

Im not sure I would listen to the FI.COM legal team on here. You have to remember they are (for the most part) junior AWA FO's making these posts.

The AWA FO's (on here at least) want the East pilots to take the furlough for their lost flying out of LAS/PHX.

 

[get2flyin]

Im not sure I would listen to the FI.COM legal team on here. You have to remember they are (for the most part) junior AWA FO's making these posts.

The AWA FO's (on here at least) want the East pilots to take the furlough for their lost flying out of LAS/PHX.

As opposed to USAPA, which is pretty much comprised of junior USAir FO's...

Yawn.

 

[HAL]

Im not sure I would listen to the FI.COM legal team on here. You have to remember they are (for the most part) junior AWA FO's making these posts.

The AWA FO's (on here at least) want the East pilots to take the furlough for their lost flying out of LAS/PHX.

Just a former junior AWA FO (who would be on the cusp of furlough soon) saying; get a grip. East pilots hired after the last of the AWA guys should be the ones on furlough! If you honestly believe otherwise, you're just not playing with a full deck. If you are just trying to beat down the AWA guys because they didn't bow down to the 'all powerful easties', Karma is a beyotch.

HAL

 

[waveflyer]

Noone was confused about the new hire's seniority. Not management, nor eastie or westie. Usapa lost a golden opportunity to gain credibility, while at the same time- possibly mitigate furloughs and yet== has done nothing. it's ridiculous. They do not represent the west in any way. It's a hostage situation.

Why do i care? B/c the legacies== all of them. Need to cut the excuses and get pay up to SWA and cargo and int'l. AAA unforgivably chose not to raise the bar when they had the chance. The whole industry suffers some from that move- while they fly around at ridiculously low pay- cutting the legs out from all of us.

 

[becket]

Just a reminder of USAPA's promises to their constituents regarding the Class Action Lawsuits pending against them.

How wrong can a group of adults be?

This Wrong:

"Our law firm has completed a preliminary review of the Verified Complaint and determined that it has no legal merit whatsoever. Moreover, it is the law firm’s opinion that the Verified Complaint betrays substantial ignorance of the Railway Labor Act, as reflected by the absence of appropriate statutory citation, the use of terminology not recognized under the RLA, and the use of terms inappropriately borrowed from non-RLA labor law. . .the Plaintiffs will find it impossible to demonstrate that USAPA acted outside the wide range of reasonableness to which unions are entitled given the fact that the USAPA Constitution’s policy objectives are identical to those adopted by most major airline labor unions – including the AFA, IAM, and TWU – and that this policy objective has been recognized by the federal courts as being in the interest of the labor movement as a whole."

Keep payin' those dues boys.

 

[Turtle21]

I am an apprentice member, and furloughed. But I never participate in DCO here or with ALPO elsewhere.

I would give my left nut (it is substantially larger than my right) to have this civil war resolved and get a good contract from the true Homos running US Airways.

Tweaker said Homos. LOL! I gotta hear the Barney avatar story.

 

[Turtle21]

The USAPA ministry of information will never allow this to be seen by their members. Reality for USAPA is like the sun to a vampire.

Every single legal document is on USAPA, including the latest.

Credibility.. Ocity 0 USAPA 1 :blush:

 

[Turtle21]

In USAPA's defense they had the ruling up on there website before AOL or AWAPPA. Fair and Balanced.

Oh my! For a brief moment objectivity has reared its gracious head.


Please.. could we just get back to bitter and irrational insults so we can feel comfortable viewing each other as enemies to be vanquished? In true ALPO tradition, show no mercy and take no prisoners!

On second thought.. this objectivity thing might just be useful..

 

[Turtle21]

Just a former junior AWA FO (who would be on the cusp of furlough soon) saying; get a grip. East pilots hired after the last of the AWA guys should be the ones on furlough! If you honestly believe otherwise, you're just not playing with a full deck. If you are just trying to beat down the AWA guys because they didn't bow down to the 'all powerful easties', Karma is a beyotch.

HAL

That would be DOH based. No one disagrees and if I read correctly, USAPA has filed a grievance on behalf of the AWA pilots being furloughed in this situation you describe.

 

[HAL]

That would be DOH based.

No, that would be based on the Nic award seniority. It's just that almost none of the furloughed east pilots on the bottom portion of the Nic award came back to work, so it pretty much goes from AWA to east new-hires.

HAL

 

[m80drvr]

That would be DOH based. No one disagrees and if I read correctly, USAPA has filed a grievance on behalf of the AWA pilots being furloughed in this situation you describe.

The grievance was actually stopped/denied by USAPA. It was only AFTER they were served with the DFR lawsuit that they restarted it.

In fact it was USAPA standing with the company saying that the furloughs were okay by them. Separate ops and all. Guess DOH only applies it it helps Bradford et el. Just ask the Empire guys.

Nice try at revisionist history though. I would expect nothing less from UCRAPA .

 

[m80drvr]

No, that would be based on the Nic award seniority. It's just that almost none of the furloughed east pilots on the bottom portion of the Nic award came back to work, so it pretty much goes from AWA to east new-hires.

HAL

And the ones that did come west were quietly sent back east, retrained and put back on line. All the while the company and UCRAPA saying that it is impossible to cross train pilots. Oh...with the exception of the 6 guys that went back east.

The papertrail that UCRAPA and the company has left behind is staggering. I believe the DFR trial will be short and sweet. I wonder how the rank and file East pilot is going to feel paying an assessment for the damages caused by UCRAPA's actions.

 

[MCDU]

For all you newbies to the Industry. Empire merged with Piedmont, not USAIR. Piedmont did not support DOH when they merged with USAIR a few years later,
because they had Capt. upgrading in 2-3 years. DOH sorts itself out in the long run. Just ask many of the former Piedmont pilots that now realize that DOH with C&R does justice in the long run.

Trump pilots got better then DOH, since they resigned from Eastern and started at a whole new Airline. Eastern was still in business went they left Eastern and went to Trump Shuttle. They resigned from Eastern. Shuttle pilots was a weird situation. How that was handled remains questionable. They should have gotten Trump DOH with C&R, instead they got better then DOH thanks to our friend Nicolau.


USAIR has always been about DOH.

Everything the Westies predict:

USAPA will not be voted in, will never have the numbers=wrong
USAPA will not have enough money=wrong
USAPA will never get benefits that ALPO provided=wrong
USAPA will not be recognized by the company = wrong

Everything the Junior Westies predict on this forum has and will be wrong. The majority rules. Not a bunch of 30 year olds that want to leap frog 15 years. Like I said, O Dell would go from 99 % to 75% in a merged list using the Nic list. That is a windfall on the backs of East jobs.

M

 

[LearLove]

the way i read it is the ruling will try and make the joint contract be negotiated under NIC - but anything that goes to the pilot group (east/west) for a vote that has anything but DOH will be voted down because simple fact that east has more numbers. so in the end its gonna be DOH anyway by strong arm (more numbers east).

 

[Fast43]

Im not sure I would listen to the FI.COM legal team on here. You have to remember they are (for the most part) junior AWA FO's making these posts.

The AWA FO's (on here at least) want the East pilots to take the furlough for their lost flying out of LAS/PHX.

Why is it then, that what the AWA junior FO's say more closely matches what the Judge said than what the Angry junior FO's club running usapa have to say??

Fast

 

[Fast43]

For all you newbies to the Industry. Empire merged with Piedmont, not USAIR. Piedmont did not support DOH when they merged with USAIR a few years later,
because they had Capt. upgrading in 2-3 years. DOH sorts itself out in the long run. Just ask many of the former Piedmont pilots that now realize that DOH with C&R does justice in the long run.

Trump pilots got better then DOH, since they resigned from Eastern and started at a whole new Airline. Eastern was still in business went they left Eastern and went to Trump Shuttle. They resigned from Eastern. Shuttle pilots was a weird situation. How that was handled remains questionable. They should have gotten Trump DOH with C&R, instead they got better then DOH thanks to our friend Nicolau.


USAIR has always been about DOH.

Everything the Westies predict:

USAPA will not be voted in, will never have the numbers=wrong
USAPA will not have enough money=wrong
USAPA will never get benefits that ALPO provided=wrong
USAPA will not be recognized by the company = wrong

Everything the Junior Westies predict on this forum has and will be wrong. The majority rules. Not a bunch of 30 year olds that want to leap frog 15 years. Like I said, O Dell would go from 99 % to 75% in a merged list using the Nic list. That is a windfall on the backs of East jobs.

M

Doosh,

If UsAir was always about DOH and now usapa claims the same.

Why is it then that usapa denies the Empire and Shuttle guys their DOH. You have claimed that usapa has the ability to apply a wide range of reasonableness when crafting a Seniority list. Under that premise they have the ability to do just that. But imagine that they are not and are being sued.

You guys over here do not get DOH and you guys over here MUST have DOH.

Seems consistant.

Fast

 

[MCDU]

Thats like AWA pilots asking for their Mesa DOH in 1998.

M

 

[m80drvr]

the way i read it is the ruling will try and make the joint contract be negotiated under NIC - but anything that goes to the pilot group (east/west) for a vote that has anything but DOH will be voted down because simple fact that east has more numbers. so in the end its gonna be DOH anyway by strong arm (more numbers east).

I would assume that if the judge says the arbitration stands you will see a large amount of East pilots finally focus on a contract. Do you honestly think that the east captains will continue to vote to stay under LOA 93 to expressly help some former furloughed pilots that are now recalled? Won't happen. The emotion is starting to wear off from the east captains. It will be interesting to watch though.

PS. If UCRAPA loses the DFR suit I think you will see them negotiating to implement the nic instead of assessing ALL east pilots for a 8 figure damage award. Bradford and the rest of the UCRAPA brain trust will need security to protect them from the east pilots.

 

[get2flyin]

Thats like AWA pilots asking for their Mesa DOH in 1998.

M

Uh, yeah...it's exactly like that...but totally different. Evidently, you aren't aware that Mesa IS a different company and WASN'T purchased by America West. Try to stay with the group, please.

 

[Contract]

A very large contingent of East Coast Pilots are already meeting with former America West Pilots in an effort to put this all behind us and move on with the seniority list that was arbitrated. Apparenty many east pilots have decided that USAPA Leadership needs to be removed and that the real battle is our work rules and pay. Stay tuned for highlights. USAPA is already crumbling from the inside out.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Anger, while volatile, doesn't have the BTU's Ambition does. Cooperation is an productivity multiplier.

If this rumor of cooperation proves to be true, it is very good news.