Union: Delta wants to cut pilot jobs

[General Lee]

As long as DAL mgt says they will still make a profit for the overall 2009 year, I dont see how they use the force majuer clause to furlough with the no furlough clause.

You cannot use "The Economy" as a reason for Forced Manure, nor fuel prices. The Swine Flu pandemic is also waning. Also, they have not used the "F" word yet at all. This buyout would cost them less money than displacing a whole bunch of people thanks to the 742 being a very senior airplane and shiznit rolling downhill.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

You cannot use "The Economy" as a reason for Forced Manure, nor fuel prices. The Swine Flu pandemic is also waning. Also, they have not used the "F" word yet at all. This buyout would cost them less money than displacing a whole bunch of people thanks to the 742 being a very senior airplane and shiznit rolling downhill.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Sigh, as much as I hate to admit this, GL is right about this.

If it was more cost effective to furlough, they would have done that in a NY minute. If they wanted to weasel more out of the pilot group, they would have asked from some quid pro quo for the early out program, which they didn't.

So far, neither has happened. All the company has done is say "hey, we want to throw some money at guys to get them to leave".

What they see is some VERY senior displacements that will wind up causing a LOT of churn (maybe 8 or 9 seats per pilot) in the pilot group, which will end up costing a lot of money. It's cheaper to pay pilots to leave (up to a point).

Nu

 

[FmrFreightDog]

And, if they do furlough, they have to remove 6 seats from EVERY 76 seat RJ (non-force mejeurable, plus "the economy" cannot be used for forced-manure anyway), and flow down to Compass.

Well, I hate to disagree with you, GL, but.....

If they furlough back to TK, they have to take seats out of all the "super-premium" RJs.

If they furlough up to but not including TK, they only have to take seats out of the "super-premium" RJs that Moak & Co. let them have a few months ago.

That's the way I read it anyway. For sure, it's a minor point overall, but one that all of us sub-TK (myself included) are quite aware of....

My point is that the sharp and pointy teeth of the no-furlough clause are far less sharp and far less pointy when you get below TK on the combined list.

 

[ron burgundy]

Wow, you are fantastic. Who are you again? Don't care.......


Bye Bye--General Lee

He is the guy that is tapping your mom.

 

[Metro752]

He is the guy that is tapping your mom.

He has Mondays, I have Friday nights after she shaves, and showers for the week.

 

[HomerJ]

Guys and gals, don't try to convince the general things aren't perfect at DL. It ain't gonna happen. Guys like him would have made great Titanic captains...

 

[JoeMerchant]

No. Just wait. This is to reduce training costs. Not to mitigate furloughs. Like I said we are 800 fat this winter and even to slightly under staffed next summer.

I gave you the retirement numbers over the next 30 years. We are going to hire and a lot. What they are doing now is paying the money they would in training costs to pilot to get em out. Make sense, so just relax little bit.

Look past the end of the recession.

Part 2 of the recession is on deck.....As the value of the dollar plummits while Obama fires up the printing press....Oil will start back up....Combined with double digit inflation...things will get worse....

 

[contrail67]

You must really have a terrible life....doom and gloom everywhere for you.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Thanks Nostrodumbass. One thing for sure is even if we furlough, at some point they will come back and at some point we will be hiring gangbusters. My guess is sooner than later. Another thing for sure is that you will NEVER get hired at DAL and most likely no other career airline. You are known. If we can out the other scooter loser(crj567) it can be assured that his career will never progress other than being a subcontractor.

Part 2 of the recession is on deck.....As the value of the dollar plummits while Obama fires up the printing press....Oil will start back up....Combined with double digit inflation...things will get worse....

 

[ultrarunner]

It's all about the numbers. You make it attractive enough for older guys, then they will bail. Remember, quite a few folks will simply look at it from that standpoint.

Management can also offer up bucks to stay in a seat.....pay someone what they can hold, vs. taking up the butt to train them...lots of options to mitigate costs associated with the integration.

 

[Schwanker]

Well, I hate to disagree with you, GL, but.....

If they furlough back to TK, they have to take seats out of all the "super-premium" RJs.

If they furlough up to but not including TK, they only have to take seats out of the "super-premium" RJs that Moak & Co. let them have a few months ago.

That's the way I read it anyway. For sure, it's a minor point overall, but one that all of us sub-TK (myself included) are quite aware of....

My point is that the sharp and pointy teeth of the no-furlough clause are far less sharp and far less pointy when you get below TK on the combined list.

You may be right on the how many AC seats must be pulled, although I thought it was all of them. TK is no longer the dotted line though. TK (as well as several 2007 hires) is senior to the junior most NWA 2001 hire. This is where the dotted line was drawn prior to the most recent LOA. Again, not sure which AC the most recent LOA included--thought it was all of them.

As far as shiatzu rolling downhill from the 742 which is extremely senior, the bottom of the hill is the last FO at Compass which results in more training cycles and the flushing of an entire list. Couple this with furlough pay and pulling seats out of RJs, dishing out retirement incentives is likely less $$$.......EXCEPT.......IF DALPA CAVES ON SCOPE!!! Let's hope this doesn't happen.

Also, it would really set folks off if Delta is wildly profitable for the next 3 quarters and for the year while furloughing. I don't see furloughs happening given the future profit/loss guidance as this alone would poison labor relations which have been somewhat on the mend. I'm hoping RA and Co. see some value in a motivated work force.

Schwanker

 

[Schwanker]

It's all about the numbers. You make it attractive enough for older guys, then they will bail. Remember, quite a few folks will simply look at it from that standpoint.

Management can also offer up bucks to stay in a seat.....pay someone what they can hold, vs. taking up the butt to train them...lots of options to mitigate costs associated with the integration.

True, except it must pass DALPA. What further guarantees would DALPA want to ensure it doesn't bit them in the mudpipe? They could be creative.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And to add another bit of info. We are still having retirements and with any luck some early outs. My seniority # for May is what was projected for Jan 2012. This will be a good place to hang your hat. Will we furlough now? Who knows, but at least the company and union are trying to do something. So, my advice to the newer regional pilots is to take the Joe Merchant, crj 567 types with a grain of salt. We all know the type. Guys like them were there when we were. They knew everything and just knew that the mainlines would never hire again and never win contract improvements. Always pointing out that they had friends furloughed(hired at a major prior to Gulf war 1) that would have been "senior" gettin' weekends off and flying the best saab, atr, brazilla, lines. Holding court in the crew room like some kind of "king of the dip********************s". Some easily influenced, new to the industry guys/gals believed their BS. Most of us just laughed them off as "angry, bitter, jealous lifers". Lo and behold, a year or two later the hiring started and those that kept their ear to the ground and kept sending those resumes every 6 months or so got the call. These guys missed the boat in the hiring boom of the late 90s and can't stand the fact that their former fo's are now capts or mid level widebody fo's at a major. Now, even when the hiring began again in 2007 and even more of their former fo's got hired and they didn't, they are even more bitter. Even if they could get hired now they won't apply because their ego won't allow them to go to the bottom and swing gear for someone who got lucky(in their words)"daddy was a pilot, female, other minority etc.)

 

[IAHERJ]

You, my friend, are very accurate.

IAHERJ

 

[FBN0223]

True, except it must pass DALPA. What further guarantees would DALPA want to ensure it doesn't bit them in the mudpipe? They could be creative.

Exactly. I would hope the offer from Delta is an attractive one, but equally important is the deal should be offered to all of the senior guys and gals who are eligible. On the last round on PERPS, there were several pilots who were eligible but because they were on the wrong aircraft at the time of the PERP, the were NOT allowed to participate in the program.