UAL Returning Furloughees

[Hvy]

I plan on having my Bolivian Babe stay with me in Denver. She needs to learn english a little better and I fiqure I can get her a job at Shot-Gun Willies to supplement my income.

While you're in the sim, I'll be entertaining her for you. imp:

 

[acroflyr]

Hey Acro, do you have any sort of idea when guys at your seniority will see recall? I know it is a crap shoot... just wondering.

I'm not sure. Looks like I'm sitting around 900 #'s away right now. I still have a long way to go, but things are starting to happen fast. If the bypass rate stays the same as it is now I may be called about a year from now. But if they increase class sizes, then it may be sooner. My guess is around the end of the year or just after.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

I plan on having my Bolivian Babe stay with me in Denver. She needs to learn english a little better and I fiqure I can get her a job at Shot-Gun Willies to supplement my income.

While you're in the sim, I'll be entertaining her for you. imp:

Sorry but she will be in the sim with me, omly way I can get a good PC from the LCA is bring a "Chica" to the sim session, besides she likes to grade me V1 cuts.....oiiii Poppeeee

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

I plan on having my Bolivian Babe stay with me in Denver. She needs to learn english a little better and I fiqure I can get her a job at Shot-Gun Willies to supplement my income.

While you're in the sim, I'll be entertaining her for you. imp:

As long as you are willing to pay $$$$$$$

 

[boeing747-800]

Who is that chick man she's hot!

 

[Andy]

The latest posted on UAL ALPA is that the 8 ball is #7762, hired 10 Jan 00. The 8 ball on UAL's seniority list is #8915, so we're chewing through the seniority list very quickly. The bypass/mil leave rate is running greater than 60%.
I'm not sure how long it will take to go back through the way; probably a bit longer due to the high number of bypasses the first time around.

On UAL ALPA under the furlough interest section, there was a post labeled WARNING Rumor Warning. Here it is:

>>>Here is a goodie:

As some of you realize I fly the EMB-170 at Shuttle America. Anyway here is a comment from our pilot forum. Seems this guy flew ORD-ABQ with our CEO.

"Talked to Mr. CEO Glenn(United) the other day ord-abq. He told me United would be out of bankruptsy in the early spring if not sooner and get this...

They are in the process of calling back furloughs with the possibility of interviewing pilots for a hiring pool at the end of 2006. This would be in effect until all current furloughees are given the opportunity to return.

Straight from the horses mouth."

Just thought it is interesting that "Glenn" says we might be starting hiring pool in late 2006. I think we have only recalled a few hundred of the 2172 that are furloughed. I guess he is expecting a lot of resignations.

Like I said total rumor.....just passing it on <<<<

I'd be surprised to see UAL starting to hire before the end of 2006, but stranger things have happened.
Goggles, I'll try to update as necessary. Again, my apologies for the previous shot; I have gotten so used to every pilot from every other airline taking a shot at UAL that I now tend to shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Goggles, I'll try to update as necessary. Again, my apologies for the previous shot; I have gotten so used to every pilot from every other airline taking a shot at UAL that I now tend to shoot first and ask questions later.

Thanks Andy.

 

[Swaayze]

Don't y'all think that a large # of bypassers are planning to come back at their "last chance recall"? (I assume there exists such a system at UAL).

 

[Andy]

Don't y'all think that a large # of bypassers are planning to come back at their "last chance recall"? (I assume there exists such a system at UAL).

Yes, I do. Hence my cautiousness on starting a hiring pool by the end of this year.
But the recalls so far have been pilots who have been furloughed less than 3 years. I think that once they start hitting the 4+ year furloughees (approx #8070), a lot of them will never return. Many are at better gigs and have more seniority at their current company than they would at UAL. Many of those that took bypasses initially may also be at better gigs, just waiting until the last possible moment to decide which way to go with their career. For someone at JetBlue or Southwest, I wouldn't expect to see them return.


And just to clarify the recall process for everyone. UAL is going through the list in seniority order. A recallee has four choices: accept recall, accept recall and go on military leave, bypass, or resign. I don't think many (if any) have fallen into the fourth category. For those that bypass, they can elect to return at any later time as long as recalls are occurring.
Once the seniority list is depleted (#8915 is called), UAL goes back through the list in reverse seniority order and tells the bypasser that s/he either accepts recall at this time, or forfeits their seniority number. One exception to this is if they previously obtained an LOA (which usually runs ~2 years).


I am curious to see if, in two months or so, some bypassers decide to return to the 75/767. For those interested, (this is a bit dated) junior man in seat on the 75/76 is #7158 at ORD and #7147 at LAX and #6986 at DCA. 7147/7158 were hired 4/12/99, 6986 was hired 1/18/99, and all three were furloughed (not sure exact dates on furloughs/recalls for them). Other domiciles' junior man on 75/76: #6723 at JFK, #6681 at SFO, #6078 at DEN, and #5219 at SEA, none of whom were furloughed.
From UAL's flight ops website:
"The only initial assignment that may be given to a recalled pilot is one that has gone “unfilled” on a vacancy bid. The information below shows the unfilled vacancies from the vacancy bids that closed in Oct and Nov. Manpower planning decides which of the unfilled vacancies they will fill in each of the recall classes based on the most immediate needs of the operation. Not all of unfilled vacancies will necessarily be filled."

I don't know if any unfilled 75/76 slots have occurred yet, but rumor mill (Bob Neil; the go-to guy for UAL recall info) indicated to one furloughee that there should be a few 75/76 slots for returning furloughees this summer. FWIW.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

Yes, I do. Hence my cautiousness on starting a hiring pool by the end of this year.
But the recalls so far have been pilots who have been furloughed less than 3 years. I think that once they start hitting the 4+ year furloughees (approx #8070), a lot of them will never return. Many are at better gigs and have more seniority at their current company than they would at UAL. Many of those that took bypasses initially may also be at better gigs, just waiting until the last possible moment to decide which way to go with their career. For someone at JetBlue or Southwest, I wouldn't expect to see them return.


And just to clarify the recall process for everyone. UAL is going through the list in seniority order. A recallee has four choices: accept recall, accept recall and go on military leave, bypass, or resign. I don't think many (if any) have fallen into the fourth category. For those that bypass, they can elect to return at any later time as long as recalls are occurring.
Once the seniority list is depleted (#8915 is called), UAL goes back through the list in reverse seniority order and tells the bypasser that s/he either accepts recall at this time, or forfeits their seniority number. One exception to this is if they previously obtained an LOA (which usually runs ~2 years).


I am curious to see if, in two months or so, some bypassers decide to return to the 75/767. For those interested, (this is a bit dated) junior man in seat on the 75/76 is #7158 at ORD and #7147 at LAX and #6986 at DCA. 7147/7158 were hired 4/12/99, 6986 was hired 1/18/99, and all three were furloughed (not sure exact dates on furloughs/recalls for them). Other domiciles' junior man on 75/76: #6723 at JFK, #6681 at SFO, #6078 at DEN, and #5219 at SEA, none of whom were furloughed.
From UAL's flight ops website:
"The only initial assignment that may be given to a recalled pilot is one that has gone “unfilled” on a vacancy bid. The information below shows the unfilled vacancies from the vacancy bids that closed in Oct and Nov. Manpower planning decides which of the unfilled vacancies they will fill in each of the recall classes based on the most immediate needs of the operation. Not all of unfilled vacancies will necessarily be filled."

I don't know if any unfilled 75/76 slots have occurred yet, but rumor mill (Bob Neil; the go-to guy for UAL recall info) indicated to one furloughee that there should be a few 75/76 slots for returning furloughees this summer. FWIW.

I have spoken to Bob Neil about the 767. Looks like I should be able to bid it this summer, thus the reason I took the 737 so I didn't have a freeze. Sure wish the 747-400/777 would go junior like they did in 2000.

 

[GogglesPisano]

How many pilots will be retiring in the next 10 years at UAL? Anything like CAL?

 

[Andy]

Sure wish the 747-400/777 would go junior like they did in 2000.

With the LCC, I don't expect that to happen. I'd expect to see 737/A320 Capt going junior to my dream job (dozing for dollars).

It sounds like you're making a prudent move in getting off of the LCC as fast as possible.

 

[Andy]

How many pilots will be retiring in the next 10 years at UAL? Anything like CAL?

Percentage-wise, CAL is a better bet. I think UAL's somewhere around 350/yr (probably a bit less).

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

Don't y'all think that a large # of bypassers are planning to come back at their "last chance recall"? (I assume there exists such a system at UAL).

Who do you think have been getting hired at FedEx, SWA, UPS and others? DO you really think anyone would leave those companies to go back to United?

 

[P3-Adub]

How solid is the by-pass ?

Understand that one can by-pass up to 2 years with a letter from an employer. Does that mean a solid 2 years or does the reverse seniority callbacks begin and when they get to your number, letter or not, you have to decide ? Maybe a better question for Todd Coomans ??

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

With the LCC, I don't expect that to happen. I'd expect to see 737/A320 Capt going junior to my dream job (dozing for dollars).

It sounds like you're making a prudent move in getting off of the LCC as fast as possible.

Hey Andy?

Are you Andy H ????

 

[acroflyr]

And just to clarify the recall process for everyone. UAL is going through the list in seniority order. A recallee has four choices: accept recall, accept recall and go on military leave, bypass, or resign. I don't think many (if any) have fallen into the fourth category. For those that bypass, they can elect to return at any later time as long as recalls are occurring.
Once the seniority list is depleted (#8915 is called), UAL goes back through the list in reverse seniority order and tells the bypasser that s/he either accepts recall at this time, or forfeits their seniority number. One exception to this is if they previously obtained an LOA (which usually runs ~2 years).

What is the provision for if you are under contract to your current employer? Is that an "Accept recall and go on LOA" and you start to accrue longevity again, or are you still frozen in time like you were while furloughed? Also, can a civilian "Accept recall and go on LOA" similar to the Military folks? Thanks!

Acro

 

[Andy]

Understand that one can by-pass up to 2 years with a letter from an employer. Does that mean a solid 2 years or does the reverse seniority callbacks begin and when they get to your number, letter or not, you have to decide ? Maybe a better question for Todd Coomans ??

You're talking about an LOA. At the beginning of furloughs, it was 2 years; more if needed. I think that most recent is 2 years max. The LOA has to be coordinated with the flight office of the domicile from which you were furloughed. It most likely would have had to be in effect prior to initial bypass, but don't quote me on that. If in doubt or you are interested in getting an LOA, I'd call my flight office rather than Todd.
I had a problem (more like concern) when I quit my UAL management job (UAL management sux rox, but that's for another thread) about whether or not I would revert back to UAL furloughee list. I called LAXFO to ensure that I was reinstated. They took a few days to get back to me, but they did call me and let me know that I was still on the seniority list. (BTW, LAXFO is awesome; they were a complete breath of fresh air after being exposed to ORDFO). The number for your flight office is 888-UAL9xxx, where xxx = domicile; LAX, SFO, ORD, SEA, etc.

 

[Andy]

Hey Andy?

Are you Andy H ????

Yeah, that's me. I was a total prick to that retired guy on Boyle's last night, but I don't think that guys in his position think about those of us who are standing outside, looking through the window. Hopefully my response today was more eloquent; it was definitely less alcohol impaired. I hope that I was able to properly express the concerns of furloughees.

 

[aa73]

JP...

Check your email...I had a "REALLY" good trip to Santa Cruz.

Holy Mother of God, yes you did!

 

[Andy]

What is the provision for if you are under contract to your current employer? Is that an "Accept recall and go on LOA" and you start to accrue longevity again, or are you still frozen in time like you were while furloughed? Also, can a civilian "Accept recall and go on LOA" similar to the Military folks? Thanks!

Acro

Acro, you need to coordinate an LOA with your flight office ASAP if you are under contract with your current employer.
I don't know how they list furloughees on LOA; probably as bypasses for now. When they come back through again is probably when you'd go on LOA status.
As for time accrual during an LOA, you keep your seniority number, but you do not accrue longevity. UAL has to allow mil leave to accrue longevity due to USERRA.

I don't know the exact details of LOAs, so I would suggest that you break out C2003, call your flight office, or call your council rep for any details.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

Yeah, that's me. I was a total prick to that retired guy on Boyle's last night, but I don't think that guys in his position think about those of us who are standing outside, looking through the window. Hopefully my response today was more eloquent; it was definitely less alcohol impaired. I hope that I was able to properly express the concerns of furloughees.

I thought it was SPOT on~!

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

Holy Mother of God, yes you did!

I think I will buy another Ticket on AA (gotta keep your pay up) she misses me already!

 

[727scammer]

Guppy Puppy...whassuup

3/20/00 hire.

Expecting a recall soon. I'm 98% sure I'll bypass since I'm upgrading at JB very soon. Last flight at UA was 1/4/00, furloughed 1/15/00. Can you believe those jackarses gave me a mandatory vacation for my last 10 days on the property just so they wouldn't have to pay it out?

 

[727scammer]

GP,

I was also in the 3/20 class; however, I am looking at the numbers everyday to see when I can go back. Contact me at my other [email protected]

727Scammer

 

[Huggyu2]

The latest posted on UAL ALPA is that the 8 ball is #7762, hired 10 Jan 00.

Andy,
For what it's worth, my number is a few better than #7762, but I haven't been called yet. I ran down and checked the answering machine, just in case. Do they call you in person?
Also, where on the ALPA web do you find this info? I surfed around a bit, but couldn't find it. I went to "Members Only", then to "UAL MEC". I did notice that SkyNet Lite was updated on 13 Jan with the #7762 on it. However, Skynet Lite seems to normally be well behind the info I get on flightinfo.com.
How was the pay/QOL when you were in UAL Management?
Seeing as I've got more info from you than just about anyone else, what are the chances (your opinion) that I'll get to go to SFO when recalled?

 

[Swaayze]

Who do you think have been getting hired at FedEx, SWA, UPS and others? DO you really think anyone would leave those companies to go back to United?

Well, some UAL furloughees I'm sure, but a drop in the bucket compared to the number of folks on the street. I mean, how many pilots have these golden carriers hired in the last 4.5 years? Less than 2000(?). IIRC there were about 8000 furloughees hitting the street in 2001-2002 (+ those since) who were all qualified, so I think probably more pilots than you think will consider a recall. Though I'm quite sure you're right that those who've gone to these places won't return to their former employers.

 

[Andy]

Andy,
For what it's worth, my number is a few better than #7762, but I haven't been called yet. I ran down and checked the answering machine, just in case. Do they call you in person?
Also, where on the ALPA web do you find this info? I surfed around a bit, but couldn't find it. I went to "Members Only", then to "UAL MEC". I did notice that SkyNet Lite was updated on 13 Jan with the #7762 on it. However, Skynet Lite seems to normally be well behind the info I get on flightinfo.com.
How was the pay/QOL when you were in UAL Management?
Seeing as I've got more info from you than just about anyone else, what are the chances (your opinion) that I'll get to go to SFO when recalled?

That's weird that you didn't get a call. I originally got the 7762 info from a post by Dave O. on the UAL ALPA board under the 'Furlough Interest' section under the thread titled, '#7762,' but it's also listed on Skynetlite. I would suggest that you call Bob Neal. His phone number is listed in 'Furlough Interest' under the thread, 'Bob Neal Tel#.' Perhaps your contact info needs to be updated? According to another thread in 'Furlough Interest,' HW, #7741, got a call on 12 Jan for the 3 April class.
SFO: I assume that you plan on coming back in the 320. The 737 is no longer based out of SFO. Based on the unfilled vacancies from the previous bids, you've got a pretty good shot of being able to return to SFO. I guess that laterals are fairly easy to get also. Bob Neal is the guru on that stuff; nice guy, give him a call w/all of your questions.

OK, your UAL management question. Pay: I have a TS/SCI clearance, so I could have gotten a very good contractor job paying me a tad more than 6 figures in the DC area, but I chose to return to UAL for less than half that amount. Pay is below average, especially for the DC area.
I worked in IADOO as a zone controller. Not a fun job. The hours were 2PM - 1030PM (or later, if wx was bad). The first two hours of overtime were 'I love United' hours.
It was hard work, tough hours. But I quit because the next level of management (and a lot of managers at my level) sucked. Not incompetent, just the biggest a-holes I've come across. Treated people like dirt. It was amazing to me that the turnover rate was not higher. Most of IAD's management needs to be fired. Not all, because there are some really good ones, but enough that a good housecleaning is in order.

 

[Andy]

IIRC there were about 8000 furloughees hitting the street in 2001-2002 (+ those since) who were all qualified, so I think probably more pilots than you think will consider a recall.

It's worse than that.
UAL furloughed 2172
AMR furloughed 2855
USAirways furloughed ~2000
Delta furloughed a bit more than 1000
Northwest furloughed around 700

That's almost 9000 from just 5 carriers. If you include Independence Air's 1500 pilots, you're well north of 10,000.
This has been a very bad downturn and I wouldn't be surprised to see Delta and Northwest continue to furlough more pilots.

 

[Andy]

GP,

I was also in the 3/20 class; however, I am looking at the numbers everyday to see when I can go back.
727Scammer

The 3/20/00 class is seniority numbers 7964-7985. Expect a phone call around March for a June class. That's my best WAG based on what I've seen. IF UAL accelerates recalls (which is a realistic possibility), you'll get a call sooner for an earlier class.
I expect UAL to go through the entire seniority recall list (first pass) in 2006. I don't expect UAL to go through the list in reverse order to give bypasses a last chance until sometime in 2007. It is very possible for UAL to be back in the hiring mode late 2007.