Travel Management-Elkhart IN. ????

[Woodstockpal]

1+1= 200%[/QU

Once upon a time two little piggys were sittin beside the street cryin when along came by the Big Bad Wolf. He looks down an ask “Why u little piggys actin so sad?” one little piggy looks up an sayz because we lost out jobs an bin hurtin real bad for money & the IRS iz bout to foreclose on our straw hut so yesterday we done gone an sold piggy #3 to the meathouse and we reckon bout now hez been turned into ham and now you is looking at us and were skeered. Da Big Bad Wolf looks down and sayz “Oh I’m a vegetarian wolf and I ain’t gonna eat u piggys matter a fact I’ll give you piggys a job so you can make some money.” You can work for me cause I own the meathouse.” So da two little piggys squealed and squealed as they worked away at the Big Bad Wolfs meathouse so they could pay for their straw hut always pushing hard & giving 200% every day. Then one day there was a shortage of bacon and sausage & the next thing you know them little piggy’s disappeared never to be seen again well sort of unless of course you like sausage and bacon. The moral of the story; if you sell your soul to the Big Bad Wolf don’t be surprised if’n you find yourself between two slices of bread even if you gave 200% working for him!

 

[OnTheRocks]

you must have misinterpreted my sarcasm

 

[TMCCPDavid]

Now Hiring!

With a tremendous turnover, we are doing a lot of hiring. Send in your resumes to join the premier charter company in the world. But be advised, we don't follow the FAA's interpretation of the rules...

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/2009/Berry.pdf

 

[boeing72]

Well said David ! It's about time we see some honesty

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Just read the reserve policy a little more closely.

The 42 days of daily rate pay per company three month quarter will be paid---
-after- the 3 month quarter is over.


So, if someone is going to go on reserve to upgrade, or move to a different aircraft;
and they are in training, messing up their normal schedule, getting the 100 per day daily rate in training, and are unable to get enough flying days in that month, or, however long training takes--- it's ok, they will still get 42 days pay in a 3 month quarter.

They will just have to wait to the end of the three month quater and finance their bills on their credit cards while they wait. There isn't that much extra cost in finance fees to getting cash out of a credit card to pay a bill anyway--- or is there.

No problem.

 

[TurboHonda]

With a tremendous turnover, we are doing a lot of hiring. Send in your resumes to join the premier charter company in the world. But be advised, we don't follow the FAA's interpretation of the rules...

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/2009/Berry.pdf

Although § 135.267(b) does not contain an
explicit duty time limitation, it appears the 24-hour on-call situation you present would not
meet the rest requirements of § 135.267(d). Section 135.267(d) requires that flight
crewmembers must have at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period
preceding the planned completion time ofan assignment made under § 135.267(b). A rest
period must be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and
(3) free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom
from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.​

Imagine that, Scott. Anyone that ever tried to tell you that got fired.

 

[Skippy]

it's actually not "illegal" the way TMC carries on. A grey area? sure but not illegal, nor prosecutable and/or winnable.
You see the "OUT" is TMC is a NONscheduled operator and the FAA being the big promoter of aviation and all has to allow TMC ( and other business to compete) and this flexibility in the words allows for that. (scheduled operators have scheduled duty periods, nonscheduled dont- its as simple as that)

thats why we are "released" into rest after a duty period. you can go to the beach, movies etc on your time ( while you cannot drink- that is a COMPANY POLICY) so what you do on your time is your business, now if they call you at normal bedtime for a transcon pop up, each individual pilot has to self asses themselves for fatigue. TMC has a nonpunitive fatigue policy to prevent flying fatigued- use it, dont abuse it- again, its that simple.

SKIPPY

 

[TurboHonda]

Skippy,
Feigned and calculated confusion on your part does not constitute acquiescence on mine. The issue has nothing to do with scheduled duty periods and everything to do with predictable rest.
TMC and companies like them have taken the approach that “If we don’t call you, you’re in rest. If we do, you’re on standby.” since the beginning of time. FLOPS tried it years ago, until the union finally explained it to them.
FAR 135.267 covers non-scheduled crews and TMC is not in compliance. Again, …It’s that simple.

 

[Skippy]

Well then call washington, bc after their full investigation in the matter, tmc was found in compliance. Faa is there to promote aviation ( dont forget that), not hinder it and create a higher cost for companies to operate. Im not creating confusion, that was how it was explained to me from a pretty high ranking faa representative. So unless hes lying, im just passing it along. Im not saying whether its right or wrong, im merely presenting the legality of the matter and the fact that took the time/effort to pursue an answer/explanation should speak volumes.
Im not trying to confuse anyone just sharing how it was explained to me YESTERDAY from the FAA.

 

[Skippy]

Skippy,
Feigned and calculated confusion on your part does not constitute acquiescence on mine. The issue has nothing to do with scheduled duty periods and everything to do with predictable rest.
TMC and companies like them have taken the approach that “If we don’t call you, you’re in rest. If we do, you’re on standby.” since the beginning of time. FLOPS tried it years ago, until the union finally explained it to them.
FAR 135.267 covers non-scheduled crews and TMC is not in compliance. Again, …It’s that simple.

I​

​

​

​

Sections 135.267 and 135.269 establish flight time limitations and rest requirements for part 135 unscheduled
operations. Alternatively, an operator may elect to comply with § 135.265, the flight time limitations and rest​

2
under the "moving 24 consecutive hour" flight time limitations of § 135.267(b), or the
regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours flight time limitations of​

§ 135.267(c). See




The key word is "ALTERNATIVELY" as in they can comply via these other ways.

 

[ProFracPilot]

thats why we are "released" into rest after a duty period. you can go to the beach, movies etc on your time ( while you cannot drink- that is a COMPANY POLICY) so what you do on your time is your business,

Perhaps I don't fully understand your stream of consciousness. How is it that you can be "released" into rest (i.e., free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, as described in 125.267(b) (3)) if you're obligated to the company for any reason during this time? What you do on your time, so long as you report for work rested, fit, sober and beyond the 8hr rule for alcohol consumption shouldn't matter. If the company is dictating your behavior during your "rest", you're not in "rest".

 

[jstanotherpilot]

(scheduled operators have scheduled duty periods, nonscheduled dont- its as simple as that)


That is essentially correct. As told to me by an FAA guy. Probably not the same FAA guy as it's in a different region.

The difference is that scheduled operators like 121 scheduled ops can give you a much smaller amount of rest down to 8 hrs compared to 135 non-scheduled ops, and all the nuances of the 121 regs are so much more of a pain.

In the spirit of the law, non-scheduled 135 have the unwritten rolling rest, but in exchange for us at least, they have greater amount of time in standard rest compared and les overall duty allowable.

Just wish it was written more clear.

At the regional it's very very common to be regularly schedule 5 legs then 8hrs your first night, then 6 legs the next day with no real dinner or breakfast, and then 10 hrs compensatory the second night, the third day 6 legs and then 8 hrs regularly scheduled that thrid night, and the following last day, 7 legs before your 8th leg to commute home on the jumpseat. (if it is available)

As far as 135 rolling rest:

We know they're going to do it, grey or not, so it's up to us to be professional about it and be rested or call in fatigued when we know we are not going to be able to do a long pop up that will take us through the night after we have been up since 8AM. And meanwhile write the senators to get it changed, r get another job.

There seems to be alot of Part 91 gigs out there right now.

 

[FL430]

perhaps i don't fully understand your stream of consciousness. How is it that you can be "released" into rest (i.e., free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, as described in 125.267(b) (3)) if you're obligated to the company for any reason during this time? What you do on your time, so long as you report for work rested, fit, sober and beyond the 8hr rule for alcohol consumption shouldn't matter. If the company is dictating your behavior during your "rest", you're not in "rest".

right on the bullseye!

 

[Skippy]

Either we can agree to disagree ( with me being correct) or feel free to challenge the FAA legal team and let us all know how that goes. Again, TMC is in full compliance with the faa regulations. Your excuse of tmc dictating behavior while on rotation and or while on rest is meaningless---- they could also implement a no tabacco policy , that has nothing to do with regulations, company policy is completely different from faa regulations.

 

[Flying Biker]

right on the bullseye!

Among other thing!!! Those that sell their souls to the Scott's for a job deserve what they get.