Travel Management-Elkhart IN. ????

[Woodstockpal]

1+1= 200%[/QU

Once upon a time two little piggys were sittin beside the street cryin when along came by the Big Bad Wolf. He looks down an ask “Why u little piggys actin so sad?” one little piggy looks up an sayz because we lost out jobs an bin hurtin real bad for money & the IRS iz bout to foreclose on our straw hut so yesterday we done gone an sold piggy #3 to the meathouse and we reckon bout now hez been turned into ham and now you is looking at us and were skeered. Da Big Bad Wolf looks down and sayz “Oh I’m a vegetarian wolf and I ain’t gonna eat u piggys matter a fact I’ll give you piggys a job so you can make some money.” You can work for me cause I own the meathouse.” So da two little piggys squealed and squealed as they worked away at the Big Bad Wolfs meathouse so they could pay for their straw hut always pushing hard & giving 200% every day. Then one day there was a shortage of bacon and sausage & the next thing you know them little piggy’s disappeared never to be seen again well sort of unless of course you like sausage and bacon. The moral of the story; if you sell your soul to the Big Bad Wolf don’t be surprised if’n you find yourself between two slices of bread even if you gave 200% working for him!

 

[OnTheRocks]

you must have misinterpreted my sarcasm

 

[TMCCPDavid]

Now Hiring!

With a tremendous turnover, we are doing a lot of hiring. Send in your resumes to join the premier charter company in the world. But be advised, we don't follow the FAA's interpretation of the rules...

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/2009/Berry.pdf

 

[boeing72]

Well said David ! It's about time we see some honesty

 

[jstanotherpilot]

Just read the reserve policy a little more closely.

The 42 days of daily rate pay per company three month quarter will be paid---
-after- the 3 month quarter is over.


So, if someone is going to go on reserve to upgrade, or move to a different aircraft;
and they are in training, messing up their normal schedule, getting the 100 per day daily rate in training, and are unable to get enough flying days in that month, or, however long training takes--- it's ok, they will still get 42 days pay in a 3 month quarter.

They will just have to wait to the end of the three month quater and finance their bills on their credit cards while they wait. There isn't that much extra cost in finance fees to getting cash out of a credit card to pay a bill anyway--- or is there.

No problem.

 

[TurboHonda]

With a tremendous turnover, we are doing a lot of hiring. Send in your resumes to join the premier charter company in the world. But be advised, we don't follow the FAA's interpretation of the rules...

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...0/interpretations/data/interps/2009/Berry.pdf

Although § 135.267(b) does not contain an
explicit duty time limitation, it appears the 24-hour on-call situation you present would not
meet the rest requirements of § 135.267(d). Section 135.267(d) requires that flight
crewmembers must have at least 10 consecutive hours of rest during the 24-hour period
preceding the planned completion time ofan assignment made under § 135.267(b). A rest
period must be (1) continuous, (2) determined prospectively (i.e., known in advance), and
(3) free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom
from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.​

Imagine that, Scott. Anyone that ever tried to tell you that got fired.

 

[Skippy]

it's actually not "illegal" the way TMC carries on. A grey area? sure but not illegal, nor prosecutable and/or winnable.
You see the "OUT" is TMC is a NONscheduled operator and the FAA being the big promoter of aviation and all has to allow TMC ( and other business to compete) and this flexibility in the words allows for that. (scheduled operators have scheduled duty periods, nonscheduled dont- its as simple as that)

thats why we are "released" into rest after a duty period. you can go to the beach, movies etc on your time ( while you cannot drink- that is a COMPANY POLICY) so what you do on your time is your business, now if they call you at normal bedtime for a transcon pop up, each individual pilot has to self asses themselves for fatigue. TMC has a nonpunitive fatigue policy to prevent flying fatigued- use it, dont abuse it- again, its that simple.

SKIPPY

 

[TurboHonda]

Skippy,
Feigned and calculated confusion on your part does not constitute acquiescence on mine. The issue has nothing to do with scheduled duty periods and everything to do with predictable rest.
TMC and companies like them have taken the approach that “If we don’t call you, you’re in rest. If we do, you’re on standby.” since the beginning of time. FLOPS tried it years ago, until the union finally explained it to them.
FAR 135.267 covers non-scheduled crews and TMC is not in compliance. Again, …It’s that simple.

 

[Skippy]

Well then call washington, bc after their full investigation in the matter, tmc was found in compliance. Faa is there to promote aviation ( dont forget that), not hinder it and create a higher cost for companies to operate. Im not creating confusion, that was how it was explained to me from a pretty high ranking faa representative. So unless hes lying, im just passing it along. Im not saying whether its right or wrong, im merely presenting the legality of the matter and the fact that took the time/effort to pursue an answer/explanation should speak volumes.
Im not trying to confuse anyone just sharing how it was explained to me YESTERDAY from the FAA.

 

[Skippy]

Skippy,
Feigned and calculated confusion on your part does not constitute acquiescence on mine. The issue has nothing to do with scheduled duty periods and everything to do with predictable rest.
TMC and companies like them have taken the approach that “If we don’t call you, you’re in rest. If we do, you’re on standby.” since the beginning of time. FLOPS tried it years ago, until the union finally explained it to them.
FAR 135.267 covers non-scheduled crews and TMC is not in compliance. Again, …It’s that simple.

I​

​

​

​

Sections 135.267 and 135.269 establish flight time limitations and rest requirements for part 135 unscheduled
operations. Alternatively, an operator may elect to comply with § 135.265, the flight time limitations and rest​

2
under the "moving 24 consecutive hour" flight time limitations of § 135.267(b), or the
regularly assigned duty period of no more than 14 hours flight time limitations of​

§ 135.267(c). See




The key word is "ALTERNATIVELY" as in they can comply via these other ways.

 

[ProFracPilot]

thats why we are "released" into rest after a duty period. you can go to the beach, movies etc on your time ( while you cannot drink- that is a COMPANY POLICY) so what you do on your time is your business,

Perhaps I don't fully understand your stream of consciousness. How is it that you can be "released" into rest (i.e., free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, as described in 125.267(b) (3)) if you're obligated to the company for any reason during this time? What you do on your time, so long as you report for work rested, fit, sober and beyond the 8hr rule for alcohol consumption shouldn't matter. If the company is dictating your behavior during your "rest", you're not in "rest".

 

[jstanotherpilot]

(scheduled operators have scheduled duty periods, nonscheduled dont- its as simple as that)


That is essentially correct. As told to me by an FAA guy. Probably not the same FAA guy as it's in a different region.

The difference is that scheduled operators like 121 scheduled ops can give you a much smaller amount of rest down to 8 hrs compared to 135 non-scheduled ops, and all the nuances of the 121 regs are so much more of a pain.

In the spirit of the law, non-scheduled 135 have the unwritten rolling rest, but in exchange for us at least, they have greater amount of time in standard rest compared and les overall duty allowable.

Just wish it was written more clear.

At the regional it's very very common to be regularly schedule 5 legs then 8hrs your first night, then 6 legs the next day with no real dinner or breakfast, and then 10 hrs compensatory the second night, the third day 6 legs and then 8 hrs regularly scheduled that thrid night, and the following last day, 7 legs before your 8th leg to commute home on the jumpseat. (if it is available)

As far as 135 rolling rest:

We know they're going to do it, grey or not, so it's up to us to be professional about it and be rested or call in fatigued when we know we are not going to be able to do a long pop up that will take us through the night after we have been up since 8AM. And meanwhile write the senators to get it changed, r get another job.

There seems to be alot of Part 91 gigs out there right now.

 

[FL430]

perhaps i don't fully understand your stream of consciousness. How is it that you can be "released" into rest (i.e., free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from work or freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise, as described in 125.267(b) (3)) if you're obligated to the company for any reason during this time? What you do on your time, so long as you report for work rested, fit, sober and beyond the 8hr rule for alcohol consumption shouldn't matter. If the company is dictating your behavior during your "rest", you're not in "rest".

right on the bullseye!

 

[Skippy]

Either we can agree to disagree ( with me being correct) or feel free to challenge the FAA legal team and let us all know how that goes. Again, TMC is in full compliance with the faa regulations. Your excuse of tmc dictating behavior while on rotation and or while on rest is meaningless---- they could also implement a no tabacco policy , that has nothing to do with regulations, company policy is completely different from faa regulations.

 

[Flying Biker]

right on the bullseye!

Among other thing!!! Those that sell their souls to the Scott's for a job deserve what they get.

 

[jstanotherpilot]

The meaningless battle that will never be won by mortal theologians, pilots and philosophers that like to talk.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

What's up with TMC? They just posted Citation jobs to be based at VNY and TEB. Are they trying to get away from having to purchase airline tickets now? This place is starting to sound like a place you just go to earn your stripes and not a living where you can support yourself and a family.

WOW, just re-read the ad, TEB crew to be dual qualified as to be a back-up to the King Air 200 crew. Both TEB and VNY crews to get only 4 days off per month, yet the pay is still the same as the Beechjet and Hawker guys running a 15/13 schedule. Sad.

 

[cloud_chaser]

What's up with TMC? They just posted Citation jobs to be based at VNY and TEB. Are they trying to get away from having to purchase airline tickets now? This place is starting to sound like a place you just go to earn your stripes and not a living where you can support yourself and a family.

WOW, just re-read the ad, TEB crew to be dual qualified as to be a back-up to the King Air 200 crew. Both TEB and VNY crews to get only 4 days off per month, yet the pay is still the same as the Beechjet and Hawker guys running a 15/13 schedule. Sad.

I pity the fool that takes this job!

 

[boeing72]

Yeah, Thats a worse deal than the rest of the TMC pilots have. But, If u need a job take it. If not, avoid !!!!!

 

[Flying Biker]

Tmc

If u need a job take it. If not, avoid !!!!!

And why would you whore yourself out like that and cheapen the industry and your education even more?

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

Yeah, Thats a worse deal than the rest of the TMC pilots have. But, If u need a job take it. If not, avoid !!!!!

Some people don't get it...yeah, it pays more than UI, yeah there are benefits, yeah it could lead to better things....However, is it worth it to sell your soul and cheapen an industry that you plan on being in as a career? Are you going to be able to keep your family together? Do you ever ask yourself, "If it's this bad on the surface, what's it like once you get there?"

What's changed there in the last year?

Day rate...i.e. no pay if you're sent home becaue of MX issues or other circumstances.

Types of rotations....i.e., you want a better schedule, you get paid less.

No cell phone reimbursement...company phone now...yeah, dragging around 2 cell phones is so much fun.

Health insurance, cost you more for less coverage.

You pay for your uniform. TMC swag and all.

7 days vacation gone....turned into you have to earn 5 days and you get 2 sick days.

Less pilots on staff.

Merit level pay scale...i.e. How often do you take it in the shorts and lose just a little more dignity.

That's just what I know off the top of my head and as somebody not involved.

 

[Skippy]

awe, dont forget the 3 personal days to be requested 60 or 90 days in advance

interesting thought- when i was hired, we had near 140 pilots , we as of today have 105 pilots ( they havent accounted for one or two that will be sending in their notice within the week) and we have more planes!
so by august, we will be most likely in double digits and be 1/3 less of a pilot group with about 10 more planes-- shrink to profitability-- how'd that work for the airlines? exactly. to make money-- you need to grow/exapnd, retain employees and not be a constant training center.
merikt level by july 1-- wow thats in a few days- i cant wait to see where i am

 

[big pimpn']

What's up with TMC? They just posted Citation jobs to be based at VNY and TEB. Are they trying to get away from having to purchase airline tickets now? This place is starting to sound like a place you just go to earn your stripes and not a living where you can support yourself and a family.

WOW, just re-read the ad, TEB crew to be dual qualified as to be a back-up to the King Air 200 crew. Both TEB and VNY crews to get only 4 days off per month, yet the pay is still the same as the Beechjet and Hawker guys running a 15/13 schedule. Sad.

I just saw that on my climbto350 account and applied for the citation job....I wrote in the cover letter box "this has to b a joke, 4 days off a month and 5 vacation after a year? It's a joke right?"

 

[FlyinFife]

GOM vs FAR

What you do on your time, so long as you report for work rested, fit, sober and beyond the 8hr rule for alcohol consumption shouldn't matter. If the company is dictating your behavior during your "rest", you're not in "rest".

While I agree with the message of your post, I do need to correct you on one issue. Although the FAA has the 8-hour bottle-to-throttle rule, if a company has a more restrictive alcohol policy written in their GOM (i.e. 12-hours, 24-hours, etc) it supersedes the FAA alcohol rule. If you break it, you can and will be issued a violation by the feds.

 

[Skippy]

While I agree with the message of your post, I do need to correct you on one issue. Although the FAA has the 8-hour bottle-to-throttle rule, if a company has a more restrictive alcohol policy written in their GOM (i.e. 12-hours, 24-hours, etc) it supersedes the FAA alcohol rule. If you break it, you can and will be issued a violation by the feds.

ummmm, that's so not true

 

[FlyinFife]

ummmm, that's so not true

Ummmmmm, that so is true. But you can be the cowboy and disregard the limitations set forth in the GOM and accepted by the FAA as a legally binding document.

 

[Skippy]

Interesting theory

 

[The Kman]

A little birdie told me Segrave Airelite Private Jets has recently addopted the same polcy.

 

[Skippy]

Ummmmmm, that so is true. But you can be the cowboy and disregard the limitations set forth in the GOM and accepted by the FAA as a legally binding document.

I think ur confusing the gom with tmc's policies and procedures. The faa could fn care less nor is their approval reqd for company policies and procedures. If thats the case shall i protest my daily pay rate to the faa? Or will they 609 me for not wearing a tie?

 

[Skippy]

A little birdie told me Segrave Airelite Private Jets has recently addopted the same polcy.

Is this confirmed?