SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[maxblast72]

Management made threats far more drastic than what Gary and crew were making here when we were in contract negotiations. Should we have caved then, too, because the "consequences...would have been catastrophic" if they hadn't been bluffing? Of course not. Leaders make judgment calls based upon experience.

Don't the MEC had a 98% strike vote supporting calling management's bluff. After the Merger Committee heard Gary Kelly threaten separate ops/717 fragmentation scenarios on July 14, 2011, we felt the pilots should have a say on whether they wanted to call Gary's bluff. Even your king of scope attorney could not guarantee the outcome on Aug 17, 2011 as outlined by my friend on the ATN forum several months back:

"What you and Txxx have failed to mention every time you address specifically what Abrams said with regard to M/B is the second half of his statement which I will summarize: "You have a strong case in court, but it might take a long time to claim a legal victory. You might win the case but find yourself without a job. What you might actually end up with is a monetary settlement. I don't know if many of you would call that a victory." This is not word for word but I took notes that day and that is exactly the sentiment he conveyed to the entire room with a microphone in his hand. I heard every word he said and my summary is not an exaggeration or dramatized for effect."

 

[intooclose]

Management made threats far more drastic than what Gary and crew were making here when we were in contract negotiations. Should we have caved then, too, because the "consequences...would have been catastrophic" if they hadn't been bluffing? Of course not. Leaders make judgment calls based upon experience. The leadership determined then that the threats were nothing but posturing, so negotiations continued rather than leaking it to the pilot group and getting everyone scared. But when the merger talks come around, an inexperienced and gullible MC pisses their pants, leaks standard run-of-the-mill threats to the membership, then the membership pisses their pants, and leverage evaporates overnight. This is not leadership, and it's certainly not very smart.

Again, if you aren't willing to call someone's bluff on the most outlandish of threats, like shutting down an airline you just purchased when the law is clearly on our side, then you might as well not even engage in bargaining and just get right to begging.

There was no law "clearly" on our side. We live in a world that has no guarantees, only calculated risk. No law that I know of compels a company to be run in a certain way, beyond being criminal. Bond-McCaskill.....give me a break. Really?

We were not dealing with Airtran management any more. You and Slick were fighting the last war. Once we were bought the risk equation changed dramatically for most of us. That is what leadership is suppose to see and adjust to new realities. You did not, and you failed. Our leadership failed us at a critical moment. Or should I say revealed itself. You are pathetic.

 

[RLAblows]

Management made threats far more drastic than what Gary and crew were making here when we were in contract negotiations. Should we have caved then, too, because the "consequences...would have been catastrophic" if they hadn't been bluffing? Of course not. Leaders make judgment calls based upon experience. The leadership determined then that the threats were nothing but posturing, so negotiations continued rather than leaking it to the pilot group and getting everyone scared. But when the merger talks come around, an inexperienced and gullible MC pisses their pants, leaks standard run-of-the-mill threats to the membership, then the membership pisses their pants, and leverage evaporates overnight. This is not leadership, and it's certainly not very smart.

Again, if you aren't willing to call someone's bluff on the most outlandish of threats, like shutting down an airline you just purchased when the law is clearly on our side, then you might as well not even engage in bargaining and just get right to begging.

They are shutting down our airline! They are getting rid of 88 of our planes. They are even paying the competition to take them. (of course that was all a bluff according to the MEC members at the time) I'm sure a long drawn out arbitration battle would have given us great security seeing that more then half of the airline is being given away. You are so disconnected from reality, and your age and experience shows. To compare contract negotiations with our old management vs. negotiations with the management that just bought the airline is ludicrous. One management team needed us to keep their jobs and be successful. The other, well, not so much. It should be more then obvious now why we were bought. It wasn't for our planes, reservation system, people, gates..........

 

[Crash Pad]

You do realise that management was actively selling the airline during contract talks. They were just stalling because you don't make repairs until after the home inspector and buyer request them. Stop with this "we fought for what we got". You took what management gave you when they were ready to give it. Our FO rates are still below industry average, you caved on scope, and you brought our reserve system up to ASAs level. Way to go Patton! No retreat, no surrender my ass.

 

[Ty Webb]

No, the ATN forum was shut down because of all the personal attacks and occasional threats of violence. Maybe if pilots like yourself could debate without calling people names we would still have a forum today.

Time to face facts-

The current leadership investigated ways to bar YOU from the forum. According to ALPA rules, it is almost impossible to ban a single member, so they did the next best thing. This research, again, was done specifically to deal with you, Colonel Kurtz.

None of the people you mentioned have access to all 335,000 pages of documents and have attended 4 out of first 5 depositions taken.

Newsflash- if they had ten million pages of documents they still wouldn't be showing their ass on by re-posting snippets of private emails. It's called integrity and judgement, two character traits you obviously do not have.

 

[Kenney G]

Don't the MEC had a 98% strike vote supporting calling management's bluff. After the Merger Committee heard Gary Kelly threaten separate ops/717 fragmentation scenarios on July 14, 2011,


So when is the deposition of Gary Kelly? Why keep calling others that were in the room to testify on what he really said when you can just have him do it himself and you can save a lot of time and money.

 

[intooclose]

Don't the MEC had a 98% strike vote supporting calling management's bluff. After the Merger Committee heard Gary Kelly threaten separate ops/717 fragmentation scenarios on July 14, 2011,


So when is the deposition of Gary Kelly? Why keep calling others that were in the room to testify on what he really said when you can just have him do it himself and you can save a lot of time and money.

Because PCL is a surrender monkey and loves dinner rolls.

 

[-9Capt]

Keep rationalizing yes voters.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Keep rationalizing yes voters.

Keep bitching about something you can't change, no voters.

Bubba

 

[-9Capt]

Keep bitching about something you can't change, no voters.

Bubba

We'll see what the DRC brings. Not holding my breath tho.

At least my conscience is clear and I don't feel the need to rationalize my cowardly vote.

 

[intooclose]

We'll see what the DRC brings. Not holding my breath tho.

At least my conscience is clear and I don't feel the need to rationalize my cowardly vote.

You people keep talking about the deal we got. It sucks. No one has disputed that as far as I can tell. You are missing the forest for the trees. Again you are using an emotions based argument by calling me a coward. YOU ARE IGNORANT. The deal is relative to your to your appetite for risk. I do not let this job define me as a person. Please gain some personal importance away from work. Dogginit people love you.

DRC is a joke and we will witness that soon.

 

[PCL_128]

It's truly pathetic how many people feel so little of themselves and their careers that they're willing to surrender everything they've earned because of the most minute risk. You can justify it in your own mind all you want by talking of "life experience" and the hordes of kids that you have to take care of, but it's really just cowardice. But tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself sleep better at night.

 

[intooclose]

It's truly pathetic how many people feel so little of themselves and their careers that they're willing to surrender everything they've earned because of the most minute risk. You can justify it in your own mind all you want by talking of "life experience" and the hordes of kids that you have to take care of, but it's really just cowardice. But tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself sleep better at night.

Its official: You Have Fu*king Lost It

I win. Bye.

 

[intooclose]

It does feel like my kids are a "horde" sometimes.. Kids have a way of putting things into perspective. I agree its hard to understand when you think of nothing but yourself. You have to be able to find your di*k first to have kids, and not the fake one you hide behind as a "Union Thug".

 

[vixin]

That's about the same reaction I get anytime I mention his name to former AAI pilots.