SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[JT12345]

Well, I'm completely with you about how LOOONNNGGG this thing is taking- I have no idea why the integration needs to take 3 years-
Other initiatives- ok- but to integrate AT? Why can't we do it faster?- we are doing damage to our culture by dragging this out and I have been vocal about that to people who matter-

As for ISL-
You proved my point- you think it's mainstream to think you could get seniority that improves where you'd be at your date of hire when you got bought by a better company with a superior career- - one where dozens upon dozens gave up all their air tran seniority to start at the bottom while no SWA pilot made the same choice-
Seriously- DOH was your worst case scenario?
Sorry- that wasnt going to happen- cry in your wheaties all you want- it wasnt real.

That unrealistic expectation is the cause of your discontent with the SLI - nothing else- it's an immature greedy viewpoint.

And viewpoints like that do tend to make one less happy.

But I do wish we could get you integrated faster- much faster

Where the fek did I write DOH. Can u read? Did you read the whole message cause I spoke about percentages and average gains from arbitration. Actually what most of your piers would consider maximum average loss of seniority.

 

[madjack]

Loss of seniority at AAI....DOH -2.5-3.5 years but keep longevity, and a free type if u need one, stable future, better contract, more lucrative career, etc, etc....doesn't sound so bad...especially when 65% of the fleet is heading to DL...

 

[JT12345]

stable future.

LMAO

Not from what I am seeing, and experiencing so far.

All I see are unions out of control like the legacies redux pre bankruptcy. A management team that can't adapt quickly, and a company losing its competitive edge. Just because you are making money does not mean others are less competitive and not closing the competitive gaps. Making money does not mean things don't need to be better and more competitive. I am really worried about a 20+ year there and the way things are going so should you. So far the only thing still keeping it a float is that you own most of your airplanes, and you can leverage those assets. The company was built right from the ground up decades ago till recently.

There is more concern over doing someone else's job instead of getting the job done.
The employees have bloated, and selfish contracts promoting abuse that are far from competitive.
The only hope is that things stay flat while the rest of the industry catches up the next few years with inflation and gains from previous cuts of 40% during bankruptcy. I am not just talking about the pilots and the money cartels. From what I hear everyone is milking the cow and she is almost out of milk. I say this because i care about the future there. I want a future there. Why shouldn't I?

Now don't start saying I am anti union. Far from it. But being Pro union does not mean you should be anti company does it?

 

[madjack]

Yhgtbsm!!! Your saying SWA is doomed because of bloated labor and it's non-adaptive business model.,,dude, put down the pipe and tell me which legacy is going to put us under, or do u think Spirit has our number...lowest cost in majors, best spread sheet, heck give us at least one money losing quarter b4 u write us off...and the AAI debt is put to rest, that was a big t$&d to swallow...

 

[vixin]

Where do you think AAI would be then? High debt, your supper contract you would have gotten after the strike, limited cash, limited assets, oil above $80 pbl and of course a stronger Delta and a strong SWA ready to eliminate AAI. I forget AAI had orders. Ha! AAI was the powers house that was much better situated then poor broke SWA. You may want to do some research so you don't sound so stupid.

 

[JT12345]

Never said SWA is doomed or writing you guys off. I am talking about the direction the company needs to take and where the current attitudes are taking SWA in the future. Just because something works does not mean it is not broke or needs to be improved. One of the reasons SWA is not competed with is because there are other airlines in worse shape and easier targets. Btw you bought the only company giving you any real competition. You can give up small gains now or larger ones later. It has happened before in Airline history and is a broken record. And I am not just talking about pilots.

Hey Vixen. If AAI was so feked up why didnt GK wait for us to just go bankrupt? So much for that logic of yours.

 

[vixin]

Do some research it will educate you. AAI wasn't in the best shape. So answer my above question. How well off was AAI? It wasn't. You guys would have been booming the last couple of years I am sure of it. Where would AAI be if it wasn't bought? Don't be delusional either. Get facts and objectively educate yourself.

 

[JT12345]

Where would it be. Funny. It would still be taking on SWA in major markets and thorn in the side. Your so called facts are exaggerated in an industry like this that hands investors and employees their shirts on a regular basis.

So better yet tell me where you think SWA is going since you have a crystal ball????????

 

[intooclose]

I think to compare AT and SWA is like comparing a too ripe banana vs. a sweet perfectly ripe Georgia peach. One maybe has potential while one is juuust right. Or better yet like comparing a torpedo boat to an aircraft carrier. Yes, the torpedo boat can cause some damage and turn on a dime. But, once the aircraft carrier gets turned into the wind, launches the fighters and mans the battle stations, which can take some time, can bring massive firepower to bear on anybody. It can handle much rougher seas and take care of its crew much better than the torpedo boat.

 

[737tanker]

If AAI was so feked up why didnt GK wait for us to just go bankrupt? So much for that logic of yours.

He tried that with USAir in PHL and he is still waiting.

 

[PCL_128]

So it has changed from I am no way staying, I am leaving . To now I intend to leave .


Next it will be I am considering leaving .

Then after that, you just decide a long vacation is all you need to show this place .


You are all talk , can't wait to hear your reason that you decided to stay.

Sorry, I didn't intend to imply any sort of ambiguity. I am leaving, it's just a question of the exact date. I'm waiting to see what the schedules look like this fall, as well as waiting for the 2014 vacation award. If I can cram all of my vacation into the first quarter, and the schedules are still pretty decent, then I'll wait until then to leave. If the schedules go to crap or I can't get my vacation time at the beginning of the year, then I'll probably bail before the year is over. Right now I've got a great schedule while getting a decent pay check on guarantee. If that continues, then there's no reason to bail so soon. I'm more than happy to take SWA's money while doing very little work for them.

 

[-9Capt]

Loss of seniority at AAI....DOH -2.5-3.5 years but keep longevity, and a free type if u need one, stable future, better contract, more lucrative career, etc, etc....doesn't sound so bad...especially when 65% of the fleet is heading to DL...

Good arguments. I only wish you could have made them to an arbitrator instead of cramming them down our throats.

As for the stable future, better contract and lucrative career...that's a snapshot in time. History is littered with stable, high paying airlines that are now out of business. Seniority isn't amendable...like your CBA. Anyone who's been in this profession for more than a few years understands that, so do arbitrators.

 

[canyonblue]

History is littered with stable, high paying airlines that are now out of business. Seniority isn't amendable...like your CBA. Anyone who's been in this profession for more than a few years understands that, so do arbitrators.

That argument also goes both ways. History is also littered with airlines that have come and gone in this post deregulation world. The fact is, it is harder for any post deregulation airline to survive, and it's a proven fact.

 

[Phlintstone]

I didn't want to commute, and I didn't want to live in any SWA bases.

You do realize there is an Atlanta base, right?

To me, that made a career at SWA worthless.

You do realize there is an Atlanta base, right?

Add in the quick-turn style flying, the high block months, etc., it just wasn't anything I wanted anything to do with.

You do realize that we are an airline that does not have a monthly minimum that must be flown, right? You can drop all or some of your schedule and fly as much or as little as you care to.

You do realize that Atlanta will be and is senior with respect to FAT guys. While we have a lot of commuters, there are a ton of guys that just want to stay in ATL. With ALL FAT guys as SWA FOs, that makes the situation even worse. Yes, ATL is a base but is untouchable for the majority of FAT FOs that want it.

Phred

 

[madjack]

Maybe Arby would have been worse with the dc9s leaving...but I know, u would rather have a judge dictate, got it...

 

[waveflyer]

Where the fek did I write DOH. Can u read? Did you read the whole message cause I spoke about percentages and average gains from arbitration. Actually what most of your piers would consider maximum average loss of seniority.

You do know that DOH would lose most about 20% of AT seniority in many cases much much more - I don't care to look it up now well after- but it's the product of us being older and having lots of pilots hired well before air tran was born-

The only way to get to 12% is to start giving you seniority in excess of where you'd be at DOH-

Btw, I don't know how you know I have piers, but I do at our lake house- and they swear they're just holding down the dock, not spewing out opinions

Btw- great movie
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...0KEwWjyDSUKZQLtdKkUIULw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.dGI

 

[vixin]

Where would it be. Funny. It would still be taking on SWA in major markets and thorn in the side. That my friend is using a crystal ball. Your so called facts are exaggerated in an industry like this that hands investors and employees their shirts on a regular basis. Like I said do your research. Either you don't want the truth or to stupid to understand it. I don't think AAI would be that much of a thorn today. AAI was so strong yet easily sold. You are delusional!!

So better yet tell me where you think SWA is going since you have a crystal ball????????

Your reading comprehension sucks. Facts are PAST tense. I didn't think crystal balls looked backwards. Maybe I should look into a Delorean with a flux capacitor.

 

[tankerhead]

I think to compare AT and SWA is like comparing a too ripe banana vs. a sweet perfectly ripe Georgia peach. One maybe has potential while one is juuust right. Or better yet like comparing a torpedo boat to an aircraft carrier. Yes, the torpedo boat can cause some damage and turn on a dime. But, once the aircraft carrier gets turned into the wind, launches the fighters and mans the battle stations, which can take some time, can bring massive firepower to bear on anybody. It can handle much rougher seas and take care of its crew much better than the torpedo boat.

It's also got a lot more seamen in it.

WTF?

 

[PCL_128]

You do realize that Atlanta will be and is senior with respect to FAT guys. While we have a lot of commuters, there are a ton of guys that just want to stay in ATL. With ALL FAT guys as SWA FOs, that makes the situation even worse. Yes, ATL is a base but is untouchable for the majority of FAT FOs that want it.

Phred

Exactly. I'd be looking at about a decade to get back to Atlanta as a bottom of the list reserve FO. Not exactly very appealing.

 

[Ty Webb]

It's also got a lot more seamen in it.

WTF?

Thanks for the morning laugh. :laugh: :laugh::laugh:

It's pretty clear to most of us former AAI guys that AirTran was what SWA had once been- a smaller, nimble and innovative airline.

SWA had become a bloated, legacy version of itself and was getting left behind by the post-bankruptcy era of leaner, lower-cost legacies who are now merging and combining. Southwest HAD to do something; what used to work in the past was no longer working. Buying AAI was a smart, and necessary move.

Unfortunately, instead of taking the best practices of each carrier (like AAI's leaner, more efficient Gate and Ramp operations) SWA chose to do what it does with its airplane- dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator. It's disappointing that it hasn't used AAI to invigorate things, rather than just assimilate us, but those decisions are obviously not ours to make. . . . Hope they know what they're doing.