SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[madjack]

No planes no seats...Arby 101

 

[Ty Webb]

No planes no seats...Arby 101

I guess that means you'd still be stuck in the right seat, MJ.

No planes, no upgrade. :crying:

 

[canyonblue]

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.

There are many senior RSW FO's that either waited to upgrade, or will upgrade next year. Many of those only have 100-200 AAI pilots that are senior to them, with 180 scheduled retirements by 2015. Those pilots will likely see a wash on their seniority. Of course with the good old SWA vacancy bidding cycle, that could change if there are no CA upgrade classes in 2015. Believe me, age 65 sucked the life out of this place with no Captain vacancy bids for 5 years. Hope we never see that again.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well, right now, with less than 1/4 of the AAI guys transitioned, you have super-senior AAI Captains sitting at the top of the FO list in all bases; unable to upgrade until 2015, they are pushing all FO's down, instead of spreading the pain throughout the CA list as well. Someone worked the numbers, and said that MCO will largely become manned by former AAI guys. . . . Where will all those RSW pilots flow? To the other bases, of course.

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.

Possible.

Just as possible is that as the planes and pilots transitioned over as AT to SWA CA/FO's, those same pilots would push out those same junior guys from MCO/BWI.

The only difference which would be occurring if AT CA kept their seats, is SWA senior FO's would not be CA, AND, more importantly, the end game retirement value would be lower for senior SWA FO's.

When the balloon is squeezed, the other side gets big, same for vacancies, it matters not what side of a fence or non fence or seat lock plan you are on, when your on the squeezed side, you get moved.

 

[redflyer65]

It's really a Zero Sum gain right now..

For the AAI guys coming over (that are senior), we upgrade a senior SW first officer. So the FO list really remains the same.....with the exception of where those former AAI guys want to be based.

 

[madjack]

No crying, I am happy to go back to senior FO, unbelievable life style, my point was with the 88 dc9s gone your CP Seats left the property...ur airline is being dismantled, in reality ur lucky to have a job...this was not my idea, and as far as upgrading, I'm in the left seat regardless of AAI, i was a VERY Sr SWA FO...there are more SWA CPs under me now, and I can thank ur MEC for that...and so can they...u have a tough fight ahead in the DRC and no matter the outcome it's time to move on...

 

[Ty Webb]

No crying, I am happy to go back to senior FO, unbelievable life style, my point was with the 88 dc9s gone your CP Seats left the property...ur airline is being dismantled, in reality ur lucky to have a job...this was not my idea, and as far as upgrading, I'm in the left seat regardless of AAI, i was a VERY Sr SWA FO...there are more SWA CPs under me now, and I can thank ur MEC for that...and so can they...u have a tough fight ahead in the DRC and no matter the outcome it's time to move on...

Wacky Jack, you wouldn't be upgraded without our 737 airframes that have come over. . . . . So, man up and say "thank you", you putz.

Don't worry, you can thank me in person,, when they double-deadhead you to provide reserve coverage in MCO. Of course, I'll be making more than you, but you'll have the tiller to "guard". . . .

 

[madjack]

That is pretty funny Ty, and I do enjoy your banter, and though you are wrong about my situation, it is certainly true for CPs junior to me....

If everyone could step away from their egos for a minute we would realize we are all lucky to have jobs at a major airline...think of the thousands of folks in the regionals and the thousands more in part 91 and 135 land whose careers are anything but linear and they may never see any seat at a major...

Let's face another fact, before the acquisition nobody believed a career at AAI was more valuable then one at SWA...no one, not GL, not PCL, not even you Ty (remember step away fm the ego).... This career is about luck, timing, and making money and going home... The acq of AAI by SWA has not derailed most AAI pilots careers...it was a move up to a more lucrative (career earnings) and more stable combined company (job security)...you may have some AAI pilots who followed a mon linear career path who are older and may have made more career earnings at AAI, but the vast majority of the young AAI pilot force will do better at SWA than at a Stand alone AAI... Don't thank me, thank GK and ur CEO for the deal....

And Ty, if it helps that healthy ego of yours to adjust to being a "lowly" Senior SWA FO for a couple years, thanks for my CP seat!

 

[madjack]

Ty, you said it your self, you will be making more as a senior MCO/ATL SWA FO than a reserve CP at SWA, probably with a much better QOL to boot...is your ego so huge that you cannot see that the purchase and demise of AAI was a good thing for your airline career? Or is losing that CP seat too big an ego bust??

I don't think you or most of your fellow AAI pilots, really want to roll the dice with the "new and improved DL", their track record of "industry leading compensation" followed by industry downturn and then furloughs/BK and outsourcing is not what I would call stability in this business...make the most of your new career opportunities at SWA, and put thanks where it really belongs, with the 3000 RSW FOs that are taking it in the shorts to make room for the AAI pilots on the SWA seniority list....

 

[texman]

Wacky Jack, you wouldn't be upgraded without our 737 airframes that have come over. . . . . So, man up and say "thank you", you putz.

Don't worry, you can thank me in person,, when they double-deadhead you to provide reserve coverage in MCO. Of course, I'll be making more than you, but you'll have the tiller to "guard". . . .

Through our retirements he would have upgraded.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, you said it your self, you will be making more as a senior MCO/ATL SWA FO than a reserve CP at SWA, .

That's not what I said.

What I said was that if you and I fly together, I will be making more than you . . . on that flight. . . because if I'm working with you, buddy, it will be for super premium pay.

I will not be making more at SWA as a commuting pilot, I'll be making less.

I currently work about 13 days a month, including my commute.

At SWA, if I work 13 days a month, including commute, I won't be making anything like what I make here.

PS., I haven't had to work a Thanksgiving, Christmas, Fourth of July, or any major holiday in probably five or six years. Something to put in your OAK crack pipe and suck on next Christmas, MJ.

 

[Just thinking]

Don't worry Ty.... they will whine and cry no matter what. After you fly with some of the senior RSW pilots you will hear how they have been going downhill for a while now. They also complain about the RSW FO's complaining about having the FAT pilots pushing them down in the seniority list. The senior FO's would have upgraded with the retirements but nowhere near at the rate in the past year and next year (seat grab).
March 2004 hire is Captain in BWI so they are not "super senior" in any stretch of the imagination. They have 500 more to go next year so the Captain list will be chuck full for quite a while preventing any FAT pilots from upgrading.... regardless of their global seniority. Once the upgrades start happening (2017-2019) they (seat grabbers) will be on perpetual reserve and get displaced out of their bases as the FAT upgrades start (unless the negotiating team and GK hook up for another rope a dope.)
They complain about the same things that is complained about in every airline. Have not flown with any prima donnas yet but I have not flown with madjack yet.

 

[madjack]

JT,

Like most SWA CP, I am not a prima donna, as a matter of fact I am probably too laid back...

Ty, the question is not what you will make next year but over the course of your career...if you had a linear airline career, you got to AAI right out of the military or a regional....you spent 10-11 years at AAI and then the company was sold to SWA...now you will be a 80-85kish SWA FO, which as long as we keep upgrading, will make you a senior FO in ATL come 1/15/2013....You will be SWA FO a few years (not commuting and getting weekends and holidays off) and then let's say 5 years from now, YOU decide you want to be a SWA CP, then, by your choice you will commute to reserve...it sounds to me like you are following a fairly linear airline career...your initially "lateral' move to SWA (AAI CP to senior SWA FO) will be rewarded down the road with an upgrade to SWA CP, you will enjoy an increase in overall career earnings and be part of a stable SWA.

You would be at DL if you wanted to, I feel you do not and you saw an opportunity at AAI and were awarded with a quick upgrade there and a fairly high spot in the SWA seniority list when your company was sold.

You are upset because you did not get what you think you "earned or derserved" or what an arby might have given you. I am not apologizing for the way this went down (I was shocked your MEC turned down SL9 and if you ask me that is where the law suit needs to happen) but your airline career could have gone much worse than it looks like it will, you are a "made" man and you will never have to look for another pilot job again...think how lucky you really are!

 

[PCL_128]

Let's face another fact, before the acquisition nobody believed a career at AAI was more valuable then one at SWA...no one, not GL, not PCL, not even you Ty

Wrong. The problem is that you only place value on money. I place value on QOL and other intangibles. To me, a career at SWA was pretty much devoid of value. That's why I never applied. I didn't want to commute, and I didn't want to live in any SWA bases. To me, that made a career at SWA worthless. Add in the quick-turn style flying, the high block months, etc., it just wasn't anything I wanted anything to do with. That's not to say that it doesn't have value....to someone else. It just doesn't have any value to me. AirTran, on the other hand, did.

 

[Bake]

then go fly for Airtran.

 

[madjack]

Well, such inflexibility may warrant a career change...

 

[K-Mart]

Wrong. The problem is that you only place value on money. I place value on QOL and other intangibles. To me, a career at SWA was pretty much devoid of value. That's why I never applied. I didn't want to commute, and I didn't want to live in any SWA bases. To me, that made a career at SWA worthless. Add in the quick-turn style flying, the high block months, etc., it just wasn't anything I wanted anything to do with. That's not to say that it doesn't have value....to someone else. It just doesn't have any value to me. AirTran, on the other hand, did.

I think this article relates to your dream job. Or maybe your hero, I don't know which.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/labor_big_real_heavy_sleeper_jl3C7gI710FI3XqpEl5o3O

 

[canyonblue]

That's why I never applied.

You wouldn't have been called anyway.

 

[maxblast72]

I was shocked your MEC turned down SL9 and if you ask me that is where the law suit needs to happen

119 AirTran pilots have filed a lawsuit dealing with how the MEC conducted themselves during the summer of 2011. Right now we are in the discovery phase (document production and depositions being taken). The truth is trickling out and will be there for everyone to see in a few more months. Here is an email that was entered into the record at a deposition last month:


　
"As you have probably already heard, your MEC has collectively decided to send this next agreement out for a vote. Incidentally, on AIP1 I was the single rep that voted to send that agreement to the pilots for a vote. That was a decision that I took very seriously and I am disappointed that the rest of the voting body did not agree with my assessment of the gravity of the situation, as I had no intention of EVER gambling with anyone's future without giving them a say in the outcome. Feel free to call if you would like to talk."

- AirTran MEC rep to a line pilot on September 4, 2011

 

[Kenney G]

119 AirTran pilots have filed a lawsuit dealing with how the MEC conducted themselves during the summer of 2011. Right now we are in the discovery phase (document production and depositions being taken). The truth is trickling out and will be there for everyone to see in a few more months. Here is an email that was entered into the record at a deposition last month:


　
"As you have probably already heard, your MEC has collectively decided to send this next agreement out for a vote. Incidentally, on AIP1 I was the single rep that voted to send that agreement to the pilots for a vote. That was a decision that I took very seriously and I am disappointed that the rest of the voting body did not agree with my assessment of the gravity of the situation, as I had no intention of EVER gambling with anyone's future without giving them a say in the outcome. Feel free to call if you would like to talk."

- AirTran MEC rep to a line pilot on September 4, 2011

Who says that one was right and the others were not?