SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[scoreboardII]

It's not as much a work slow down as management holding fast on manning (meaning not enough where needed and when needed) so management can show the union they need to allow outsourcing to reduce costs.

It's very similar to flight operations not having enough bodies during peak flying times, then saying we need to outsource to cover those peak times.

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

 

[humveedriver]

It's not as much a work slow down as management holding fast on manning (meaning not enough where needed and when needed) so management can show the union they need to allow outsourcing to reduce costs.

It's very similar to flight operations not having enough bodies during peak flying times, then saying we need to outsource to cover those peak times.

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

I thought the contract ramp workers were suppose to be for bases that didn't justify full time staffing? Some minimum number? Not to compliment the staffing at larger bases.

Having said that; SWA does vacancy +/- monthly for pilots. This accounts for shifts in seasonal flying and vacation trading. But I'm assuming that the FA's, ramp and CSR's don't do this. Is the company looking to have less full time staff on the ground and cover the difference seasonally with contractors?

 

[scoreboardII]

Rampers, in their last contract, gave the company the right to outsource any base with less than 10 or so flights a day. That's about 30 airports.

This year is the first year SWA did that, and the rampers are howling how their jobs are being outsourced, just like they agreed too, just like MX gave away heavy lines of MX to Salvadore, they all did it for the money now. Their mistake, and one they'll lose in arbitration.

The company is doing a bang up job of showing how the contract guys are much cheaper, more accurate, and faster.

It's going to be real hard for rampers to demand anything when they are lowest in on-time and baggage stats in the industry. The company easily has them by throat on this issue.

Flash forward to todays contract talks, the rampers not only want ALL rampers under SWA, but don't want any part timers at any base. They also don't want any cut in pay to do this. I'm not giving them much hope. Nor will I nor anyone who knows the truth about the rampers giving up their jobs to get a higher rate of pay, will do anything to support them. They brought this on themselves. I also think, rampers and provo will soon be outsourced like AK did ala Mensies.

SWA is also trying to kill the golden goose known as sick bank. They want to limit it, and turn long term illness over to an insurance policy, just like pilot long term disability. I think again, SWA will win in arbitration.

Your last point, FA's are like pilots, they bid for base, but all ground folks are locked into their base, BUT, SWA is not required to keep any amount in a base, they could flex up and down and move folks, which they do and are doing.

 

[PCL_128]

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

You're blaming Randy? Sorry, but that nonsense is homegrown. Just accept that people like VdV were not made from the same mold as Herb. It will probably just continue to get worse. Good luck.

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, just curious-

Which Legacy were you at?

The reason I ask is that the former Legacy guys are the ones who are saying these things the loudest. Talk to a former USAir guy. . . . Better yet, listen to one.

Yeah, I agree- I'm sure any hacker could figure it out- but I've kept it to myself thus far, and honestly I see mostly negligible differences between the line working environments at most. Bases. Who's got what routes and slots- but mostly homogenous -
That's where I hope we continue to celebrate the individual at SWA-

 

[scoreboardII]

You're blaming Randy? Sorry, but that nonsense is homegrown. Just accept that people like VdV were not made from the same mold as Herb. It will probably just continue to get worse. Good luck.

No, not blaming Randy, just saying that when an organization hires a DUI union busting hack, it's indicative of displaying just what VdV and the current crowd are made of, so in essence, we agree.

 

[superherc]

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

 

[scoreboardII]

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

It is absurd to think junior SWA FO's would have had better results if AT pilots kept their CA seat.

Your implying that a fence would have prevented some of the issues of cross country commutes. Untrue.

 

[General Lee]

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

That's just not how it works. Arbitrators don't look at PIC hours, they figure you are qualified for the job, or you wouldn't be there. There were some super young DL guys that came from the regionals and they were not placed lower than the NWA pilots. Nope. See, this type of "ego" problem is the root of many of the perceived problems here. It is seniority based, not subjective. Next thing you'll look at is the "quality" of hours. All F-15 guys should top the list, followed by A-10 and then wheenie Navy guys....??? Come on.... Who comes up with this ego based seniority system?

Your airline may be great, but thanks to internal strife (at all labor groups) and upcoming negotiations probably for less money to regain LCC status, the "LUV" adjective may be losing it's luster. I wish you the best, though!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

It is absurd to think junior SWA FO's would have had better results if AT pilots kept their CA seat.

Your implying that a fence would have prevented some of the issues of cross country commutes. Untrue.

Well, right now, with less than 1/4 of the AAI guys transitioned, you have super-senior AAI Captains sitting at the top of the FO list in all bases; unable to upgrade until 2015, they are pushing all FO's down, instead of spreading the pain throughout the CA list as well. Someone worked the numbers, and said that MCO will largely become manned by former AAI guys. . . . Where will all those RSW pilots flow? To the other bases, of course.

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.

 

[madjack]

No planes no seats...Arby 101

 

[Ty Webb]

No planes no seats...Arby 101

I guess that means you'd still be stuck in the right seat, MJ.

No planes, no upgrade. :crying:

 

[canyonblue]

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.

There are many senior RSW FO's that either waited to upgrade, or will upgrade next year. Many of those only have 100-200 AAI pilots that are senior to them, with 180 scheduled retirements by 2015. Those pilots will likely see a wash on their seniority. Of course with the good old SWA vacancy bidding cycle, that could change if there are no CA upgrade classes in 2015. Believe me, age 65 sucked the life out of this place with no Captain vacancy bids for 5 years. Hope we never see that again.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well, right now, with less than 1/4 of the AAI guys transitioned, you have super-senior AAI Captains sitting at the top of the FO list in all bases; unable to upgrade until 2015, they are pushing all FO's down, instead of spreading the pain throughout the CA list as well. Someone worked the numbers, and said that MCO will largely become manned by former AAI guys. . . . Where will all those RSW pilots flow? To the other bases, of course.

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.

Possible.

Just as possible is that as the planes and pilots transitioned over as AT to SWA CA/FO's, those same pilots would push out those same junior guys from MCO/BWI.

The only difference which would be occurring if AT CA kept their seats, is SWA senior FO's would not be CA, AND, more importantly, the end game retirement value would be lower for senior SWA FO's.

When the balloon is squeezed, the other side gets big, same for vacancies, it matters not what side of a fence or non fence or seat lock plan you are on, when your on the squeezed side, you get moved.

 

[redflyer65]

It's really a Zero Sum gain right now..

For the AAI guys coming over (that are senior), we upgrade a senior SW first officer. So the FO list really remains the same.....with the exception of where those former AAI guys want to be based.