SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[HowardBorden]

You do realize that Atlanta will be and is senior with respect to FAT guys. While we have a lot of commuters, there are a ton of guys that just want to stay in ATL. With ALL FAT guys as SWA FOs, that makes the situation even worse. Yes, ATL is a base but is untouchable for the majority of FAT FOs that want it.

Phred

Exactly. I'd be looking at about a decade to get back to Atlanta as a bottom of the list reserve FO. Not exactly very appealing.

Global seniority is often a poor reflection of local base seniority. I am a commuter and choose not to fly out of the base closest to my home because a further base affords me close to 20% better local base seniority. In the end Atlanta will be by far and away "mostly" former AirTran pilots with some original Southwest guys thrown in. Your seniority will probably more closely reflect your AT seniority than you are anticipating.

 

[waveflyer]

Exactly. I'd be looking at about a decade to get back to Atlanta as a bottom of the list reserve FO. Not exactly very appealing.

Bases?

My mentors gave me 3 pieces of advice- you'll get one- never choose an airline bc of their bases
They'll change.

But let me ask- did pinnacle and gulfstream hold any value for you?

Keep on looking for the negative fellas, but realize you sound immature when a whole lot of airline pilots have real problems.

Bases, ...,good lord. It's so clear you have no desire to do anything but leech. The last thing except a real airline pilot.

 

[waveflyer]

It's also got a lot more seamen in it.

WTF?

What Ty said- that's funny

 

[waveflyer]

How, do you guys convince yourself of such greatness.

You can't believe that it's that simple do you. I agree with nimble. But lean?

How do you define "lean"?

Are you suggesting we all fly at air tran rates? You should tell our ops agents they ought to cross-train and take paycuts. You'll make lots of friends. I'm sure GK would love that, but we are the most highly unionized airline in the country. There are contracts, and there are diminishing returns from simplicity. And I'd say we have implemented quite a bit of operational best practices. That's good.

Let me understand what you are saying. Management Boot to the necks to force low cost? I know you guys have a beaten dog syndrome, but please tell us when you think that through Ty.

Thanks for the morning laugh. :laugh: :laugh::laugh:

It's pretty clear to most of us former AAI guys that AirTran was what SWA had once been- a smaller, nimble and innovative airline.

SWA had become a bloated, legacy version of itself and was getting left behind by the post-bankruptcy era of leaner, lower-cost legacies who are now merging and combining. Southwest HAD to do something; what used to work in the past was no longer working. Buying AAI was a smart, and necessary move.

Unfortunately, instead of taking the best practices of each carrier (like AAI's leaner, more efficient Gate and Ramp operations) SWA chose to do what it does with its airplane- dumb everything down to the lowest common denominator. It's disappointing that it hasn't used AAI to invigorate things, rather than just assimilate us, but those decisions are obviously not ours to make. . . . Hope they know what they're doing.

 

[Ty Webb]

How, do you guys convince yourself of such greatness . . . . blah, blah blah . . . .

Let me understand what you are saying. Management Boot to the necks to force low cost? I know you guys have a beaten dog syndrome, but please tell us when you think that through Ty.

Yeah, that's it. We have beaten dog syndrome . . . and you have head-up-ass syndrome. Let's have this conversation in a few more years. For now, it would be a waste of time.

Ty

 

[madjack]

It's a nimble 800 pound gorilla, but hey CP Cleath will square us away, seriously he will...

 

[dicko]

You do know that DOH would lose most about 20% of AT seniority in many cases much much more - I don't care to look it up now well after- but it's the product of us being older and having lots of pilots hired well before air tran was born-

The only way to get to 12% is to start giving you seniority in excess of where you'd be at DOH-

Btw, I don't know how you know I have piers, but I do at our lake house- and they swear they're just holding down the dock, not spewing out opinions

Btw- great movie
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...0KEwWjyDSUKZQLtdKkUIULw&bvm=bv.51773540,d.dGI

Wave,

I'd be able to hold Captain in any east coast Southwest base with DOH. Instead, I'm sitting amongst SWA 6 year FOs. Find me an Arbitration of a Major airline that wasn't in extremis, that turned out like that ?

Perhaps he really meant to say "piers".

 

[dicko]

It's also got a lot more seamen in it.

WTF?

The ships Master was a grizzled old man named Bates. Master Bates. He prowled the corridors looking for idle seamen. Seamen in the back passages.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Wave,

I'd be able to hold Captain in any east coast Southwest base with DOH. Instead, I'm sitting amongst SWA 6 year FOs. Find me an Arbitration of a Major airline that wasn't in extremis, that turned out like that ?

Perhaps he really meant to say "piers".

This seems unlikely. I'm barely able to hold MCO as a captain for next month (I'd be like 3rd or 4th from the bottom), and I've been here about 12-1/2 years. Unless you lost 6-1/2 to 7 years' seniority off your AirTran DOH, you wouldn't be "among 6 year SWA FOs," and simultaneously be able to hold MCO CA if you had your original AirTran DOH.

Not saying DOH wouldn't have been a much better deal for you (obviously it would), just that your claim is a bit of an exaggeration.

Bubba

 

[Just thinking]

March 2004 hire at SWA is reserve Captain in BWI......... MCO has been shrinking
March 2004 hire at AT is bottom third in BWI as an FO and won't see the left seat for a minimum of 6-8 years at the earliest at best (more like 9-10 years).
Not so much of an exaggeration.

 

[dicko]

This seems unlikely. I'm barely able to hold MCO as a captain for next month (I'd be like 3rd or 4th from the bottom), and I've been here about 12-1/2 years. Unless you lost 6-1/2 to 7 years' seniority off your AirTran DOH, you wouldn't be "among 6 year SWA FOs," and simultaneously be able to hold MCO CA if you had your original AirTran DOH.

Not DOH wouldn't have been a much better deal for you (obviously it would), just that your claim is a bit of an exaggeration.

Bubba

You're correct. In my atrophied mind I was thinking about BWI and the bottom of their Captain list. Whilst Florida is technically a part of the East coast. It's not really

This may be sacrilege to some, and is only my personal opinion - Even if things had turned out differently and I could have held Captain within the Southwest system; I may have spent a year in the right seat by choice. For me, operational knowledge of an airlines system plays a large part in competence and comfort in the left seat. Or not, depending on your views ....

Bubba, did you fly the military version of the 707 that played with satellites ?

 

[Just thinking]

"but hey CP Cleath will square us away,"....................

Maybe you are trying to be sarcastic or funny but GK lost all confidence in the crack team that had failed in their first three attempts to get FAA approval for the international certificate. He was brought in to hopefully expedite the efforts with his experience. You better hope that he is able to accomplish this task because if they don't have it done I don't really think ole GK is going to cease all international operations January 2015 and you will have lost your opportunity to grab some more Captain seats.

 

[dicko]

"but hey CP Cleath will square us away,"....................

Maybe you are trying to be sarcastic or funny but GK lost all confidence in the crack team that had failed in their first three attempts to get FAA approval for the international certificate. He was brought in to hopefully expedite the efforts with his experience. You better hope that he is able to accomplish this task because if they don't have it done I don't really think ole GK is going to cease all international operations January 2015 and you will have lost your opportunity to grab some more Captain seats.

I had to laugh when I saw the SWA proposed version of ACARS Performance. They basically took the OPC and stuck it on a MCDU screen. Hilarious. It's like inventing the car, then leaving the horse attached to the front. So that horse and carriage drivers don't freak out.

 

[Britpilot]

I am leaving, it's just a question of the exact date.

Finally some good news.

 

[SWA Bubba]

March 2004 hire at SWA is reserve Captain in BWI......... MCO has been shrinking
March 2004 hire at AT is bottom third in BWI as an FO and won't see the left seat for a minimum of 6-8 years at the earliest at best (more like 9-10 years).
Not so much of an exaggeration.

Your point is true for BWI, traditionally a junior base, but not for MCO, traditionally a senior base. The most junior captain there is an early 2001 hire. That was my point. Apparently, Dicko wasn't thinking of MCO when he made the original comment.

And besides, MCO isn't really been shrinking so much as it's always been pretty small, and never grew much ever. It always seems to be up 5 on vacancy bids, then down 5. Repeat. People have been bitching about that for years--long before the AirTran announcement. The bitching has just gotten louder since.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

You're correct. In my atrophied mind I was thinking about BWI and the bottom of their Captain list. Whilst Florida is technically a part of the East coast. It's not really

Guess you're not old enough to have thought of MCO then. When you turn 50 and get solicited by AARP, they remind you that when you retire, the law requires you to move to Arizona or Florida. That's why those bases are so senior.

This may be sacrilege to some, and is only my personal opinion - Even if things had turned out differently and I could have held Captain within the Southwest system; I may have spent a year in the right seat by choice. For me, operational knowledge of an airlines system plays a large part in competence and comfort in the left seat. Or not, depending on your views ....

I've wondered about the same thing. I flew with a FAT guy recently (8 years there) whose total experience in a -300 was one leg on his IOE here. Then we had a 3 leg day in a -300. He flew the plane just fine, but he was very uncomfortable without the auto throttles, map, and overall better SA he was used to in a -700. He told me it was a little bit humbling. Especially when we had to hold in the terminal area on his leg.

But to each his own--like you said, it's a personal opinion.

Bubba, did you fly the military version of the 707 that played with satellites ?

Nope. We played with lots of things (ourselves, mainly ), but satellites weren't one of them.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Global seniority is often a poor reflection of local base seniority. I am a commuter and choose not to fly out of the base closest to my home because a further base affords me close to 20% better local base seniority. In the end Atlanta will be by far and away "mostly" former AirTran pilots with some original Southwest guys thrown in. Your seniority will probably more closely reflect your AT seniority than you are anticipating.

I don't think you're comprehending just how much the FOs got raped in this deal. When the transition is all said and done, ATL will basically be "real" SWA pilots in the CA seats, and former ATN captains will hold just about all of the FO spots.

 

[madjack]

How long was that ATL fence in SL9?

 

[dicko]

How long was that ATL fence in SL9?

The real question is whether it matters ?

SWAPA and SWA management seem to either violate, ignore or write secret new LOAs together that negate the others. SWAPA would have spent every waking hour attempting to circumvent any agreement.

These are the same people who had 1700 pilots bid on a 717 seat at a fictional base, while they were selling the airplane. What would you think ?

 

[waveflyer]

I don't think you're comprehending just how much the FOs got raped in this deal. When the transition is all said and done, ATL will basically be "real" SWA pilots in the CA seats, and former ATN captains will hold just about all of the FO spots.

Yes, swa FO's did get raped-
All AT FOs should have been stapled to get close to fair-

What I don't get are pilots still militantly trying to poison the well -

Move on or don't- no one at your new paycheck will ever agree you got screwed PCL. It's moronic.