SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[waveflyer]

The real question is whether it matters ?

SWAPA and SWA management seem to either violate, ignore or write secret new LOAs together that negate the others. SWAPA would have spent every waking hour attempting to circumvent any agreement.

These are the same people who had 1700 pilots bid on a 717 seat at a fictional base, while they were selling the airplane. What would you think ?

One thing's for sure, if you think they duped you, they also duped us. You don't think we'd have voted MUCH differently if we knew all our new orders were going to replace your aircraft we just bought?

 

[dicko]

One thing's for sure, if you think they duped you, they also duped us.

You sound like a crack dealer calling the cops when he gets ripped off. More to come for you Wave. Plenty more. You sold yourself for a seniority bump and allowed management to outsource an entire airline on a B scale. Just like the General. Now you're in Section 6, with GK pointing at an airline that he owns, that has better performance and is cheaper to run.

You're actually dumb enough to wonder why management is taking so long to transition the airline. Would Delta management rush to get rid of its low cost outsourced flying ?

What's your excuse ? - "it was only for a few years and I got something out of it"

 

[waveflyer]

Wow, you're right dicko. I've seen the light. Didn't think it was possible, yet here we are.
Sipping drinks tonight fellas- full courvoisier mode

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, swa FO's did get raped-

You truly are delusional.

All AT FOs should have been stapled to get close to fair-

Go f^ck yourself, wave. BTW, as arrogant and narcissistic as you are, thinking the world apparently owes you everything, if you want to use an Al Pacino avatar, it should be his portrayal of Tony Montana. "The world is yours," wave. Or so you think.

 

[canyonblue]

You sold yourself for a seniority bump and allowed management to outsource an entire airline on a B scale.

I have heard more and more people say that they would have gladly gave GK the scope relief to fly AAI as Southwest Express, seeing what has happened to SWA. Maybe in that way you are lucky that SWAPA has the best scope in the industry, or your "entire airline on a B scale" could have become an entire career on a B scale.

 

[PCL_128]

I have heard more and more people say that they would have gladly gave GK the scope relief to fly AAI as Southwest Express, seeing what has happened to SWA. Maybe in that way you are lucky that SWAPA has the best scope in the industry, or your "entire airline on a B scale" could have become an entire career on a B scale.

Our scope required the integration within 18 months, you dimwit. We were the ones who ended up waiving scope to give SWA more time, since they're apparently too incompetent to get a merger done in less than 10 years.

 

[waveflyer]

Yawn-
We're on the same page PCL - so right back at you with all that

 

[canyonblue]

Our scope required the integration within 18 months, you dimwit. We were the ones who ended up waiving scope to give SWA more time, since they're apparently too incompetent to get a merger done in less than 10 years.

So there was no way you could be operated separately, like everybody claims SWA threatened them? Glad we got that cleared up, dimwit.

 

[madjack]

Whoa, dicko, secret pacts, negating written agreements, your time in court is coming, maybe GK will break out the checkbook and back pay all at the AAI rates, or even better you keep all your CP seats, and get an ATL fence and/ROR...so basically AAI, stays like it was but u get the SWA pay.. Fine with me but what about those synergies ?...Geez acting so "rude" to the airline you acquired, u know selling their RJ, dictating the SLI...b scaling them ( at the post acq " negotiated rate" BTW) is real "ungentlemanly" on SWA's part.... Did I "spin" it right...

 

[redflyer65]

Madjack,

You forgot the SkyWest RJ service because they had no scope. CA rates of 152/hr, FO 79/hr while Bob was just stiff arming any improvements. Oh yea....and airport standby reserve too.

Must have been a wonderful place.


This AirTran wasn't such a bad place and we should have done better with the SLI is completely delusional. Give me a break. Apples and Oranges.

 

[burg]

TO

$100 says only way u leave is to another airline. So stop being all mouthy.
You know I'm good for it, cause I make more than one of your
****************************** bag captains.

Chive on mutha f*cker

 

[-9Capt]

Madjack,

You forgot the SkyWest RJ service because they had no scope. CA rates of 152/hr, FO 79/hr while Bob was just stiff arming any improvements. Oh yea....and airport standby reserve too.

Must have been a wonderful place.


This AirTran wasn't such a bad place and we should have done better with the SLI is completely delusional. Give me a break. Apples and Oranges.

We had NO scope? Sure we did, significantly better than most actually.

$152? More like mid $180's by the time our senior guys go over and start their pay cut.

Nobody is saying AirTran was great but at least we knew where our management was coming from. SW resorted to threats and ultimatums to avoid arbitration. That alone tells me we would have done much better had we arbitrated.

 

[-9Capt]

TO

I make more than one of your
****************************** bag captains.

Chive on mutha f*cker

...and it's our captains that are the ****************************** bags???

and another thing, no you don't.

 

[burg]

Maybe not, but I got TO beat, so blow me..

 

[redflyer65]

We had NO scope? Sure we did, significantly better than most actually.

$152? More like mid $180's by the time our senior guys go over and start their pay cut.

Nobody is saying AirTran was great but at least we knew where our management was coming from. SW resorted to threats and ultimatums to avoid arbitration. That alone tells me we would have done much better had we arbitrated.

Dude, your contract sucked. It sucked a little less (but not much) since the day you were hired there. Good ole' Bob was going to drive a truck right through that 'good' scope. And the trucks name was SkyWest.

Yea....152/hr before Southwest stepped in. And yes, your senior guys are over here cleaning up and making more than were at AirTran...and in many cases, doing it the cities that they have lived for years.

 

[PCL_128]

So there was no way you could be operated separately, like everybody claims SWA threatened them?

Nope, all empty threats.

 

[PCL_128]

Dude, your contract sucked.

With the exception of pay rates, I'd rather have our contract than yours any day.

And yes, your senior guys are over here cleaning up and making more than were at AirTran...and in many cases, doing it the cities that they have lived for years.

Wrong. They're taking pay cuts of approximately $30k per year. Those are real numbers straight from those senior pilots.

 

[texman]

Nope, all empty threats.

The great thing is that Bob your last CEO insisted that SWA take the work group. He did really save your job. Once you step away from aviation and see how business really is, and how cut through it can be. You will come to appreciate the SWA deal even more. Boeing could of took the hit in the 717's but SWA would have never got a smoking deal on used and 737's/MAX's. Boeing would of eventually hooked Delta up. I will say yes it sucks for the AT capt's to take a pay cut, but we all did before we came to SWA. I don't feel bad that they increase their personal cost of living from 2010-2013 with your new contract.

The great thing you will miss in aviation and having a union job is MB/AM. AM is a protection you will not have in the real world of business. TRUST me I know, and it sucks.

 

[PCL_128]

The great thing is that Bob your last CEO insisted that SWA take the work group. He did really save your job.

Our CBA saved our job. Bob did nothing.

 

[madjack]

Right

 

[redflyer65]

I'm glad you were proud of your airport ready reserve and your SkyWest operation.

A 30 thousand dollar paycut from being a senior AAI captain making 152/hr, vs a SW senior FO making 160/hr? I think your calculator might be broken.

You know those guys are flying charters and open time at double time, right?

 

[PCL_128]

I'm glad you were proud of your airport ready reserve and your SkyWest operation.

Honestly, didn't really care much about the Skywest operation. We weren't going to be flying routes that could only support 50 seaters, and our scope limited their ability to expand. As far as ready reserve, I sat a couple of hours of ready reserve recently, and got paid above guarantee for it because they didn't use me. Trust me, I'd rather have our reserve work rules than yours any day. Your reserve rules are atrocious.

A 30 thousand dollar paycut from being a senior AAI captain making 152/hr, vs a SW senior FO making 160/hr? I think your calculator might be broken.

Senior AirTran captains don't make $152/hr. Apparently your calendar is stuck on 2009.

You know those guys are flying charters and open time at double time, right?

No, I know what their real pay is and was.

 

[redflyer65]

The great thing is that Bob your last CEO insisted that SWA take the work group. He did really save your job. Once you step away from aviation and see how business really is, and how cut through it can be. You will come to appreciate the SWA deal even more. Boeing could of took the hit in the 717's but SWA would have never got a smoking deal on used and 737's/MAX's. Boeing would of eventually hooked Delta up. I will say yes it sucks for the AT capt's to take a pay cut, but we all did before we came to SWA. I don't feel bad that they increase their personal cost of living from 2010-2013 with your new contract.

The great thing you will miss in aviation and having a union job is MB/AM. AM is a protection you will not have in the real world of business. TRUST me I know, and it sucks.

This part is absolutely true. Almost without exception, when a company gets acquired the acquiring company usually brings about 10% of the workforce over and tells the other 90% 'thanks for the service, we'll let you know when we start hiring again.' Just market forces at play...day in and day out.

PCL, so what was your CA rates on the day Southwest announced this shotgun wedding? It's amazing how you received your 'new' contract within weeks after Southwest made their announcement. Just coincidence in your mind I'm sure.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, so what was your CA rates on the day Southwest announced this shotgun wedding? It's amazing how you received your 'new' contract within weeks after Southwest made their announcement. Just coincidence in your mind I'm sure.

You mean the concessions we made in bargaining to reach a deal because the NMB wouldn't let us exercise self-help with a merger in progress? We caved on many of our demands, red. What we would have ended up with would have been much better if not for this merger. Don't pat yourself on the back thinking you did us some sort of favor with this CBA.

 

[-9Capt]

Are you clowns actually saying that I have SW to thank for our last contract? You people are even more out of touch than everyone thinks you are.

If you want to talk about old contracts, lets talk about old SW contracts. Yeah, they were awesome.

Over and over about meaningless BS but you still won't address the fact that if your cram job was truly fair and equitable, why the threats and ultimatums? If you had the upper hand why did you obviously fear arbitration?

A lot of tough talk from a pilot group that never had to fight for anything. Bunch of spoiled brats thumbing their noses at everyone else. No wonder the rest of the industry feels the way they do about you.

 

[humveedriver]

Don't give up fellas! Keep debating this. I know eventually someone will be the clear winner.

 

[texman]

Don't give up fellas! Keep debating this. I know eventually someone will be the clear winner.

Hey Humm how's the Dark side of flying going. Haven a good time??

 

[redflyer65]

You mean the concessions we made in bargaining to reach a deal because the NMB wouldn't let us exercise self-help with a merger in progress? We caved on many of our demands, red. What we would have ended up with would have been much better if not for this merger. Don't pat yourself on the back thinking you did us some sort of favor with this CBA.

I understand the NMB part, I really do and it sucked for you guys. But the reality of what contract you were working under is....the reality. No matter how much you wish it wasn't. I'm not taking any credit for anything, but AAI management was much more motivated after Gary called I believe. No?

9Capt,

I think it's interesting that you are calling the pilots of SWAPA spoiled brats when they have worked their @ss off for the contract you will come over to. You get to walk in and enjoy that contract first day you transition. Just a different view point.

And just for clarification. I voted No and was ready to go to arbitration. I think the list would have looked similar, except you would have kept some CA seats but probably not all.

I absolutely believe Gary could have operated AirTran separately and probably had it dismantled (within 18 months) if he wanted to. That was probably option 'D' because he stated numerous times he wanted a negotiated agreement ASAP. Apparently, ALPA thought they would call is bluff on that line of thinking. I was shocked and dismayed that the agreement wasn't at least sent out for a membership vote. Has to go down in history as one of the worst moves ALPA ever made. That and the TWA lovefest.

 

[humveedriver]

Hey Humm how's the Dark side of flying going. Haven a good time??

It's not bad. I like not commuting and going back in to SEA. Most of the CA's will lower the gear or the flaps when I call for them with only a slight hesitation. God, how I missed that ;-). Everyone has made me feel welcome though.

I can honestly say AT was more "fun". It was just a younger airline, less slam clicking. Definitely more crew camaraderie on the overnights. That surprised me at first, but I can see how AT might have been 15-20 years down the road.

Rather than worry about the money I'm not making, I prefer to take advantage of having about 4 days off more a month and using that time wisely.

 

[PCL_128]

but AAI management was much more motivated after Gary called I believe. No?

Actually, the exact opposite is true. We were seeing motivation from management to reach a deal, and then when the deal with SWA was finalized, suddenly their motivation seemed to disappear. Before the deal was finalized, they still had uncertainty, and had to worry about the NMB releasing us into self help. After the deal was finalized, they had nothing to worry about, because they knew we weren't getting released. The only reason they agreed to anything at all was because it was easier for them to deal with the transaction if they weren't having to deal with mandatory bargaining sessions with us, plus the hassles that come with things like picketing events and having to deal with the media about labor issues. Furthermore, their hands were partly tied on how far they could go on contract improvements, because any "material change" could result in the transaction being canceled by SWA per their merger agreement.

The reality is, we took much less in a CBA because of this merger, and we were only weeks away from a better deal before the merger deal was finalized. You did us no favors.

I think it's interesting that you are calling the pilots of SWAPA spoiled brats when they have worked their @ss off for the contract you will come over to. You get to walk in and enjoy that contract first day you transition. Just a different view point.

Worked your ass off? What delusions of grandeur! From your former SWAPA President, said to a small group of AirTran pilots at one of their "Roundup" events shortly after the merger was announced:

"The truth is, we don't have the best contract because we were so good. We have the best contract because everybody else fell down below us." - Captain Carl Kuwitzky