SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[Dash Power]

I think it rather the Legacies turned to be more like us.

 

[N1atEcon]

Tell me one large company (not just airlines) that is the same as it was ten, twenty, thirty and forty years ago?
Change or Die.

 

[scoreboardII]

Ford Motor Company.

Harley Davidson Motorcycles.

Maybe Costco or Walmart.

That's about it.

 

[N1atEcon]

They are not the same. Harley D almost closed in the 80s. They sold a overweight motorcycles that were very unreliable. They made a lot of changes.

 

[HowardBorden]

Probably not in a death spiral Howie, but definitely not the same it was prior to your "hostile" takeover of the other pilot group.

And just exactly how would you have the slightest clue as to how it is now, ever was or will be in the future. You get your viewpoint from an anonymous web board! If I believed all the crap that is spewed here about SWA or any airline that I don't actually work for, I would be pathetically misinformed. Stick to pontificating about the airline you claim to work for rather than trying to be the all knowing about one you don't even claim to work for. It is still ridiculous and tired, but at least more believable.

 

[humveedriver]

Ford Motor Company

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-232039-ford-motor-co-says-culture-change-has-led-to-success.html


I'm pretty sure all business models and products have to be tweaked sooner or later. It's just a question of how much and how fast. As Ty and a few others have mentioned, it sucks watching SWA fail at something AT was really good at. Baggage handling and OT performance. One big challenge will be commiting to shut the gate door a few minutes prior to departure. I'm guessing some of the ramp issues could be union related. I'm sure those guys count on overtime as a result of low staffing.

 

[waveflyer]

I know some poster's hope to think we are just like them- but we aren't close- issues yes,not legacy issues.

 

[texman]

Humm, the problem we are having is a mini work slow down on the ramp.

 

[Ty Webb]

I know some poster's hope to think we are just like them- but we aren't close- issues yes,not legacy issues.

Wave, just curious-

Which Legacy were you at?

The reason I ask is that the former Legacy guys are the ones who are saying these things the loudest. Talk to a former USAir guy. . . . Better yet, listen to one.

 

[humveedriver]

Humm, the problem we are having is a mini work slow down on the ramp.

That makes more sense. Not saying I agree with it. But the lack of pep is obvious. 10 years ago our "fuel sheriff" wouldn't shut up about SWA's effiency on the ramp. Jetway rolling after parking brake set. External power laid out and ready for plug in. I still see good effort here and there. But nothing you would use as an example of "how to do it right".

 

[scoreboardII]

It's not as much a work slow down as management holding fast on manning (meaning not enough where needed and when needed) so management can show the union they need to allow outsourcing to reduce costs.

It's very similar to flight operations not having enough bodies during peak flying times, then saying we need to outsource to cover those peak times.

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

 

[humveedriver]

It's not as much a work slow down as management holding fast on manning (meaning not enough where needed and when needed) so management can show the union they need to allow outsourcing to reduce costs.

It's very similar to flight operations not having enough bodies during peak flying times, then saying we need to outsource to cover those peak times.

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

I thought the contract ramp workers were suppose to be for bases that didn't justify full time staffing? Some minimum number? Not to compliment the staffing at larger bases.

Having said that; SWA does vacancy +/- monthly for pilots. This accounts for shifts in seasonal flying and vacation trading. But I'm assuming that the FA's, ramp and CSR's don't do this. Is the company looking to have less full time staff on the ground and cover the difference seasonally with contractors?

 

[scoreboardII]

Rampers, in their last contract, gave the company the right to outsource any base with less than 10 or so flights a day. That's about 30 airports.

This year is the first year SWA did that, and the rampers are howling how their jobs are being outsourced, just like they agreed too, just like MX gave away heavy lines of MX to Salvadore, they all did it for the money now. Their mistake, and one they'll lose in arbitration.

The company is doing a bang up job of showing how the contract guys are much cheaper, more accurate, and faster.

It's going to be real hard for rampers to demand anything when they are lowest in on-time and baggage stats in the industry. The company easily has them by throat on this issue.

Flash forward to todays contract talks, the rampers not only want ALL rampers under SWA, but don't want any part timers at any base. They also don't want any cut in pay to do this. I'm not giving them much hope. Nor will I nor anyone who knows the truth about the rampers giving up their jobs to get a higher rate of pay, will do anything to support them. They brought this on themselves. I also think, rampers and provo will soon be outsourced like AK did ala Mensies.

SWA is also trying to kill the golden goose known as sick bank. They want to limit it, and turn long term illness over to an insurance policy, just like pilot long term disability. I think again, SWA will win in arbitration.

Your last point, FA's are like pilots, they bid for base, but all ground folks are locked into their base, BUT, SWA is not required to keep any amount in a base, they could flex up and down and move folks, which they do and are doing.

 

[PCL_128]

The old tricks work best I guess, and with SWA hiring Randy, that's about as old school as you can get.

You're blaming Randy? Sorry, but that nonsense is homegrown. Just accept that people like VdV were not made from the same mold as Herb. It will probably just continue to get worse. Good luck.

 

[waveflyer]

Wave, just curious-

Which Legacy were you at?

The reason I ask is that the former Legacy guys are the ones who are saying these things the loudest. Talk to a former USAir guy. . . . Better yet, listen to one.

Yeah, I agree- I'm sure any hacker could figure it out- but I've kept it to myself thus far, and honestly I see mostly negligible differences between the line working environments at most. Bases. Who's got what routes and slots- but mostly homogenous -
That's where I hope we continue to celebrate the individual at SWA-

 

[scoreboardII]

You're blaming Randy? Sorry, but that nonsense is homegrown. Just accept that people like VdV were not made from the same mold as Herb. It will probably just continue to get worse. Good luck.

No, not blaming Randy, just saying that when an organization hires a DUI union busting hack, it's indicative of displaying just what VdV and the current crowd are made of, so in essence, we agree.

 

[superherc]

SWAPA and ALPA would never have agreed on what is "fair and equitable". Therefore I would have been happy to see it go to arbitration like we all agreed to. SW used threats and ultimatums to deny AirTran pilots their day in court. If an arbitrator returned a similar ISL, I wouldn't be on here bitching about it. I might not have agreed with it, but I'd have moved on by now. It's a lot different when one sides version of F&E is crammed up your arse hole.

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

 

[scoreboardII]

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

It is absurd to think junior SWA FO's would have had better results if AT pilots kept their CA seat.

Your implying that a fence would have prevented some of the issues of cross country commutes. Untrue.

 

[General Lee]

Fair and equitable would have been better for all. It may have saved some AT captain seats, but it would have been much better for the junior SWA fo's. Any AT pilot without the PIC hours to meet SW hiring, welcome aboard, but on the bottom. IMO a straight ratios from top to bottom would have been best.

However it is still the best airline to work for. Great pay, flexibility of schedule, and people who want to work here.

That's just not how it works. Arbitrators don't look at PIC hours, they figure you are qualified for the job, or you wouldn't be there. There were some super young DL guys that came from the regionals and they were not placed lower than the NWA pilots. Nope. See, this type of "ego" problem is the root of many of the perceived problems here. It is seniority based, not subjective. Next thing you'll look at is the "quality" of hours. All F-15 guys should top the list, followed by A-10 and then wheenie Navy guys....??? Come on.... Who comes up with this ego based seniority system?

Your airline may be great, but thanks to internal strife (at all labor groups) and upcoming negotiations probably for less money to regain LCC status, the "LUV" adjective may be losing it's luster. I wish you the best, though!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

It is absurd to think junior SWA FO's would have had better results if AT pilots kept their CA seat.

Your implying that a fence would have prevented some of the issues of cross country commutes. Untrue.

Well, right now, with less than 1/4 of the AAI guys transitioned, you have super-senior AAI Captains sitting at the top of the FO list in all bases; unable to upgrade until 2015, they are pushing all FO's down, instead of spreading the pain throughout the CA list as well. Someone worked the numbers, and said that MCO will largely become manned by former AAI guys. . . . Where will all those RSW pilots flow? To the other bases, of course.

Also, once the AAI guys that choose to upgrade do so, the RSW guys who got a 2013-2014 upgrade will be stuck on reserve for many years as the hundreds of AAI guys who are actually senior to them start upgrading.