SWA/FL Codeshare

[Tripower455]

The AirTran guys had their career expectations rug pulled out from under them and now you want them to just smile and forget it all happened?

Uhh.....OK....

 

[Dan Roman]

Uhh.....OK....

Your comment seems to indicate your lack of perspective for the AirTran pilots situation. Going from a Captain seat in domicle to commuting to a reserve seat somewhere else is a bad deal any way you cut it. It certainly is getting your career expectations rug pulled out from under you.
Your not seeing that would seem to me serve as proof how shallow saying "lets all get along now!" And far apart many of you are.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sorry, but I've got to say it's a little empty hearing the SWA folks singing kumbyya we should all be one happy family now. You wanted to staple them, SWAPA didn't exactly take the high road in this merger and your management was duplicitous to say the least. The AirTran guys had their career expectations rug pulled out from under them and now you want them to just smile and forget it all happened?

Mergers and aquisistions are all about greed. You can't just screw them over and expect everything to be fine. There is and there should be negative consequences for any organization that tries to grow at the expense of someone else.

I agree Dan. A lot if these SWA guys WANT to think everything is and will be great, but bad feelings will linger. Zero respect during the process means a lack of respect for decades.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

Just like you will hear the "professional" SWA pilot do the same in return.

And that's a good thing. Once we're out there flying together, we've got to put it out of our head. I'm still working on it, have good days and bad, yesterday was one of those days where I was simply reminded of where my seniority will be when I get there and how long I'll be an F/O, which always puts me in a bad mood. Sorry if I got a little long-winded about it.

Two things Mr Lear.

First, you sure have a way of using the "graphs" and saying how our guys are not harmed, yet you use reality when it comes to the AT side. I could use the "graphs" and show everyone how your pain will be for a few short years, then show how you will be way ahead financially when you retire. But guess what....this is not about graphs.....this is about reality. There will be pain for many of our F/O's for much longer than a "few short years". My guess is that many will feel this pain for at least a decade, but probably longer. As far as the AT bros, there is pain and many of us know that. Most of us sympathize with you. Why, because we have families too and would not want wish that on anyone!!

I appreciate that, and wasn't using graphs so much as just my actual bidding position at the end of the day at both companies, which is really what determines our Quality of Life.

The reality for ME is that I will go from the top 20% of the F/O bidding pile to back on reserve for a couple years, making the same thing there as an F/O on reserve that I would as a Captain at AAI on reserve. The extra money doesn't come until I upgrade 15 years or so from now, a total of 22+ years as an F/O. But that's just the senior F/O's at AAI; the junior F/O's who didn't have an upgrade expectation with our delivery schedule will do MUCH better MUCH sooner and stash away a lot more green by the time they retire, there's certainly no arguing that.

Everyone has their personal grief with this deal, just like you pointed out. Nothing to do but make the best of it.

Second, the deal is the deal. I understand that AT does not like where they are at. Guess what, SWA pilots do not like it either. I am confused about those that think it was SWAPA's job to concede to any agreement that was not the best deal for its pilots. I don't care what the "industry" says. The job of your union is to produce results. Not to help the other side. AT ALPA wanted relative. SWAPA wanted a staple. Guess what....we negotiated somewhere in between. So like it or not, we all move forward.

I didn't say it was SWAPA's job to help us, not in the least. My gripe is, and always will be, that management got in the middle of an A/M merger discussion, colluded with SWAPA to create a list that protected OSW pilots and harmed AAI pilots over even a DoH solution, then made threats to the AAI pilot group in order to circumvent the arbitration avenue guaranteed by McCaskill-Bond and the Process Agreement. They shouldn't have told us in the PA that we could go to arbitration and have the list implemented (6.A) then gone back on their word (GK letter post-SIA 1 vote). That's bad faith bargaining.

I don't blame SWAPA or your pilots for their staple stance even though our pilots wouldn't have done that; when we were looking at purchasing nearly-bankrupt Midwest back in 2007 our pilots weren't trying to staple them, but rather were pushing for a fair integration mostly by Date of Hire with their CA seats protected when we went to talk to their union. I still have our internal message board discussions saved from that time period; makes me proud of our pilot group. Your pilot group is different and had a different take on it. It was your right to do so, and I don't begrudge that.

What I *DO* begrudge is management taking sides, which is the whole POINT of the M/B legislation; to protect against one side feeling their job is at stake if they don't take a harmful deal.

That's not your fault. I would have liked to fight that fight, but our pilots said they didn't have the stomach for it, were imploding, so we took the deal. Now those of us who would have liked to have taken it to arbitration will have to figure out a way to deal with it which isn't your problem; it's ours.

Again, sorry if it still gets to me from time to time. I'm trying to go cold turkey not talking about it anymore as my New Year's resolution, so if I start talking about it again after that, please tell me to STFU. :beer:

 

[General Lee]

Well said Red.

As SWAPA says far to often... This ship has sailed.. It is time to put on our swimsuits, go to the swim up bar, and stop banging our heads on these damn keyboards. No more FAT's or RSW... we are all Southwest now. Drink up!

This board was so much better when all we had to bash on was the private and up in your six.

Happy Wednesday boys and girls.... make it a good one!

Hilarious post! Suuuuuuper! Happy Wednesday! Cheer squad meeting in the showers at 5 o'clock! That's nuts......and so are you.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Your comment seems to indicate your lack of perspective for the AirTran pilots situation.

And your comments indicate a lack of perspective for the SW pilot situation.

Going from a Captain seat in domicle to commuting to a reserve seat somewhere else is a bad deal any way you cut it.

That would be a bad deal.

It certainly is getting your career expectations rug pulled out from under you.

Yup, so would getting forced out of your domicile this month, with no chance of returning for many years, due solely to this acquisition.

Your not seeing that would seem to me serve as proof how shallow saying "lets all get along now!" And far apart many of you are.

Of course, when you only look at one side of an issue, (that doesn't even involve you), you could see it that way.

 

[scoreboardII]

Dan, what part of "AirTran does not exist anymore"don't you get? When a company is bought, whom is naturally going to have the higher stressor and pain? This is business and each side voted unanimously for what they got, don't forget that, there was no gun to head as oft heard here and misused.

The time for childish behavior is over, it's time to move on and get the team working as one team. Those with giant chips on their shoulders will get over it or quit. Those casual observers who gasp at what happened will as well.

 

[General Lee]

Lear,

You're being too nice. It did appear "one sided" (most managements avoid that), and SWAPA continues to avoid the obvious by keeping your pay seperate. But, as soon as you go over there, they'll be happy to take your money and fight for you, then....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Lear,

You're being too nice. It did appear management took sides (most managements avoid that), and SWAPA continues to avoid the obvious by keeping your pay seperate.

Like ALPA did for the Pan Am guys.....

But, as soon as you go over there, they'll be happy to take your money and fight for you, then....

Which is MORE than the DALPA guys did for the Pan Am ALPA guys!

 

[General Lee]

And your comments indicate a lack of perspective for the SW pilot situation.




That would be a bad deal.



Yup, so would getting forced out of your domicile this month, with no chance of returning for many years, due solely to this acquisition.




Of course, when you only look at one side of an issue, (that doesn't even involve you), you could see it that way.

Hi Tri. Most airline mergers involve base switching after a SLI. Most of the NWA bases emptied and many of the senior FNWA pilots flew South, while junior DL pilots were bumped North. Even ATL got very senior quickly. It happens. But your group didn't handle the situation well during the process. Embrace that and it will set you free.



Bye Bye---General Lee