SWA/FL Codeshare

[jonjuan]

16,610.........

 

[Tripower455]

It's bad for everyone. You think it is good to have 2 different employee groups under ONE OWNER have differnent pay scales for the same type plane? Where is the union? Is that good for future negotiations? Is this all you could come up with "Why do you care?" YOU LOSE.


Bye Bye---General Lee

2 pay scales is a bad thing for any group under the same umbrella, even when they are still operating separately.

But....

It's not as bad as having 2 pay scales on the same seniority list, flying the same airplanes, in the same seat, same colors, in the same uniforms, with the same name on the paycheck like Delta did though......

 

[Lear70]

2 pay scales is a bad thing for any group under the same umbrella, even when they are still operating separately.

But....

It's not as bad as having 2 pay scales on the same seniority list, flying the same airplanes, in the same seat, same colors, in the same uniforms, with the same name on the paycheck like Delta did though......

Word has it this is EXACTLY what SWA management has proposed for new-hires moving forward.

Giving them a B-scale pay group, no matter WHAT part of the Southwest Corp umbrella they're flying under, without fighting it tooth and nail was a mistake by the SWAPA NC. Southwest was never going to give us pay parity - it was their way of showing EVERYONE what happens when you don't take the first offer, but SWAPA could have seen that and fought right alongside us for pay parity, even if we didn't get it, and it would have sent a clear signal to Management that a B-scale was never going to fly.

Now the camel's nose is under the tent and they're going to have to expend a fair amount of negotiating capital to keep it out. Tactical error, IMHO. I don't blame any of you guys for it, don't get me wrong, but SC and the boys really took the wrong avenue on this one.

General, I don't see the SWA pilots gloating about separate pay. Most of them NOW think we should have achieved pay parity in the deal. Right after the deal was inked, many SWA pilots on here were saying "You turned down the pay for better seniority, you got what you deserved", but now many of them are realizing that from a future negotiating strategy, that school of thought was a mistake.

Kudos to those who can admit that. Truly. :beer:

 

[General Lee]

2 pay scales is a bad thing for any group under the same umbrella, even when they are still operating separately.

But....

It's not as bad as having 2 pay scales on the same seniority list, flying the same airplanes, in the same seat, same colors, in the same uniforms, with the same name on the paycheck like Delta did though......

You mean 23 years ago? So, you think it should be the same now. Why don't you bring up women Sufferage too while you're at it. Maybe you still think Women shouldn't vote? Hey, that happened decades ago, but you still think that is a good argument for TODAY...... DORK!


You run around the issue, and can't see why 1/3 of your group is unhappy. You are the definition of a CORNDOG.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Word has it this is EXACTLY what SWA management has proposed for new-hires moving forward.

Giving them a B-scale pay group, no matter WHAT part of the Southwest Corp umbrella they're flying under, without fighting it tooth and nail was a mistake by the SWAPA NC. Southwest was never going to give us pay parity - it was their way of showing EVERYONE what happens when you don't take the first offer, but SWAPA could have seen that and fought right alongside us for pay parity, even if we didn't get it, and it would have sent a clear signal to Management that a B-scale was never going to fly.

Now the camel's nose is under the tent and they're going to have to expend a fair amount of negotiating capital to keep it out. Tactical error, IMHO. I don't blame any of you guys for it, don't get me wrong, but SC and the boys really took the wrong avenue on this one.

General, I don't see the SWA pilots gloating about separate pay. Most of them NOW think we should have achieved pay parity in the deal. Right after the deal was inked, many SWA pilots on here were saying "You turned down the pay for better seniority, you got what you deserved", but now many of them are realizing that from a future negotiating strategy, that school of thought was a mistake.

Kudos to those who can admit that. Truly. :beer:

Lear,

I hope some of them do see it. It is bad for this industry. It can and might happen again, and as you stated it could be a part of future deals, which is bad.... What is SWAPA's stance? All I hear are echos....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Word has it this is EXACTLY what SWA management has proposed for new-hires moving forward.

Giving them a B-scale pay group, no matter WHAT part of the Southwest Corp umbrella they're flying under, without fighting it tooth and nail was a mistake by the SWAPA NC. Southwest was never going to give us pay parity - it was their way of showing EVERYONE what happens when you don't take the first offer, but SWAPA could have seen that and fought right alongside us for pay parity, even if we didn't get it, and it would have sent a clear signal to Management that a B-scale was never going to fly.

Now the camel's nose is under the tent and they're going to have to expend a fair amount of negotiating capital to keep it out. Tactical error, IMHO. I don't blame any of you guys for it, don't get me wrong, but SC and the boys really took the wrong avenue on this one.

General, I don't see the SWA pilots gloating about separate pay. Most of them NOW think we should have achieved pay parity in the deal. Right after the deal was inked, many SWA pilots on here were saying "You turned down the pay for better seniority, you got what you deserved", but now many of them are realizing that from a future negotiating strategy, that school of thought was a mistake.

Kudos to those who can admit that. Truly. :beer:

This is the first I've heard of a proposed B scale for new hires.

As for the rest.

I've said from day one that a different pay scale for you guys on the AT side of the fence is a BAD idea.

 

[Tripower455]

You mean 23 years ago? So, you think it should be the same now. Why don't you bring up women Sufferage too while you're at it. Maybe you still think Women shouldn't vote? Hey, that happened decades ago, but you still think that is a good argument for TODAY...... DORK!

It's killing you that the almighty Delta is guilty of treating it's acquired airmen far worse than SW has or will treat the AT folks.....

You run around the issue, and can't see why 1/3 of your group is unhappy.

Really? The only one running around any issues is you.

And I can't see why 1/3 of our group is unhappy? I certainly can, but it would be nice if it were only 1/3, but thanks for playing.....

You are the definition of a CORNDOG.

I can live with that.

It's certainly better than personifying the definition of TROLL, which you do, in spades.

Stay Classy Troll.......

 

[SWA Bubba]

I know you actually believe the bullshat you write, but what the AT pilots were passing on was the lopsided, unfair and unrealistic seniority grab that SC and the rest of his merry men trotted out. The money was welcomed, the proposed ISL was not. Why do you persist in posting this nonsense? It's over, yet you continue to post this drivel

Why do you keep saying crap like Steve Chase (or anyone at SWAPA, for that matter) "trotted out" any SLI? You should know better. Management, in the form of Russell McCready and HIS merry men, created both lists and both basic sets of who gets what money when. Everyone but you, apparently, knows this. Do you keep saying crap like this because it gives you a reason to keep bitching at SWAPA pilots? Naming SC to give you a bogeyman to blame all your ills on? I'm sorry you don't like what you got, but it's not SWAPA's fault. It's probably best described as a combination of management playing hardball with ALPA, and ALPA not realizing it until it was too late.

I suppose I should ask you if YOU, Fred, actually believe the bullshat you write. Why do YOU, Fred, persist in this nonsense? It's over, yet YOU, Fred, continue to post this drivel.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

This is the first I've heard of a proposed B scale for new hires.

As for the rest.

I've said from day one that a different pay scale for you guys on the AT side of the fence is a BAD idea.

It was initially floated during the first meeting on Section 6. NC shot it down and moved on, from what I heard.

It's funny that General comes on here bloviating about different payscales when they have around 7 different companies flying their domestic passengers around the US, and to Canada and Mexico. Pot, meet kettle. Not that I agree with the AAI disparity, but still rather funny. Carry on.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Word has it this is EXACTLY what SWA management has proposed for new-hires moving forward.

Where on earth did you get THAT word? You're the one who keeps saying on this board that you don't know, and can never get, any information on the Southwest side, but suddenly now you've got an explosive scoop that absolutely no one on the Southwest side has? Sorry, I don't buy it. It sounds more like a rumor started specifically designed to further an agenda.

No union--even SWAPA, as much-maligned as it is--agrees to concessons from a company making profits. We may not get much more (economy, we're already on top, etc.), but we're not giving back any money.

Bubba

 

[redflyer65]

Why do you keep saying crap like Steve Chase (or anyone at SWAPA, for that matter) "trotted out" any SLI? You should know better. Management, in the form of Russell McCready and HIS merry men, created both lists and both basic sets of who gets what money when. Everyone but you, apparently, knows this. Do you keep saying crap like this because it gives you a reason to keep bitching at SWAPA pilots? Naming SC to give you a bogeyman to blame all your ills on? I'm sorry you don't like what you got, but it's not SWAPA's fault. It's probably best described as a combination of management playing hardball with ALPA, and ALPA not realizing it until it was too late.

I suppose I should ask you if YOU, Fred, actually believe the bullshat you write. Why do YOU, Fred, persist in this nonsense? It's over, yet YOU, Fred, continue to post this drivel.

Bubba

You nailed it Bubba. The whole process was driven by the company to get a deal...come hell or high water. Whatever it took to get 51% from both sides. Anyone believe differently is completely uninformed.

SC didn't craft this deal. SWAPA didn't craft this deal. Southwest management did.

 

[scoreboardII]

Word has it this is EXACTLY what SWA management has proposed for new-hires moving forward.

Giving them a B-scale pay group, no matter WHAT part of the Southwest Corp umbrella they're flying under, without fighting it tooth and nail was a mistake by the SWAPA NC. Southwest was never going to give us pay parity - it was their way of showing EVERYONE what happens when you don't take the first offer, but SWAPA could have seen that and fought right alongside us for pay parity, even if we didn't get it, and it would have sent a clear signal to Management that a B-scale was never going to fly.

Now the camel's nose is under the tent and they're going to have to expend a fair amount of negotiating capital to keep it out. Tactical error, IMHO. I don't blame any of you guys for it, don't get me wrong, but SC and the boys really took the wrong avenue on this one.

General, I don't see the SWA pilots gloating about separate pay. Most of them NOW think we should have achieved pay parity in the deal. Right after the deal was inked, many SWA pilots on here were saying "You turned down the pay for better seniority, you got what you deserved", but now many of them are realizing that from a future negotiating strategy, that school of thought was a mistake.

Kudos to those who can admit that. Truly. :beer:

Lear, cut the crapola my friend, not one dude on the SWA side was able to fight your fight once you guys spit in GK's face and refused to consider (read vote) the first offer. If anything our guys told you not to do that, at least put it out to a vote, but NOOOOOOO. And here we are.

Damn right, you guys got exactly what you voted for, trying to blame that on SWAPA is childish and petty.

The rumor about B scale newhires is true, but that NC lear hates told the company to pound sand, it died day one.

 

[General Lee]

It was initially floated during the first meeting on Section 6. NC shot it down and moved on, from what I heard.

It's funny that General comes on here bloviating about different payscales when they have around 7 different companies flying their domestic passengers around the US, and to Canada and Mexico. Pot, meet kettle. Not that I agree with the AAI disparity, but still rather funny. Carry on.

Great try RED. You still don't seem to understand "feed." Some cities, RED, can't be served by a mainline plane. They are TOO SMALL. But, their feed is important to a "hub and spoke system", one that makes a heck of a lot more revenue than your current system. So, if you still want feed from those "spokes", you have to either fly it yourself (something AT didn't do in MKE with their SkyWest RJs), or use smaller planes from regional carriers. I think you are mixed up yourself. You fly Regional "type" schedules (multiple leg days with short turn times), yet with high pay.

Anything else you need help with? Probably a lot.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Lear, cut the crapola my friend, not one dude on the SWA side was able to fight your fight once you guys spit in GK's face and refused to consider (read vote) the first offer. If anything our guys told you not to do that, at least put it out to a vote, but NOOOOOOO. And here we are.

Damn right, you guys got exactly what you voted for, trying to blame that on SWAPA is childish and petty.

The rumor about B scale newhires is true, but that NC lear hates told the company to pound sand.

THAT IS TOTAL BS. SWAPA and SC should have accepted the AT guys right after the second offer, and then continued to fight for them to this day. No pay disparity. Do you always take the first offer on anything? I guess SWAPA better take GK's next FIRST OFFER, or you guys will be in SERIOUS TROUBLE..... And how was that second offer delivered? Any idea? You obviously don't have a clue. Feelin' the LUV....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You nailed it Bubba. The whole process was driven by the company to get a deal...come hell or high water. Whatever it took to get 51% from both sides. Anyone believe differently is completely uninformed.

SC didn't craft this deal. SWAPA didn't craft this deal. Southwest management did.

So Red, SWAPA will be powerless to stop possible upcoming pay cuts IF management wants them? Powerless?


Bye Bye---General Lee