SWA/FL Codeshare

[General Lee]

39 posts in one day.

Correct. Lots of responses, lots of good threads, lots of debate. Thanks for stalking! Unfortunately, very few of your posts are memorable. So, Jonny, go snuggle with Uncle Sal and enjoy your night.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[madjack]

As for the GL's assertion that the SWAPA should have fought for pay parity for AAI after the SL10 was voted in...well we can fight all we want but if the company won't/can't afford it...ain't gonna happen...rumor has it VDV told GK after SL9 was inked that we could not afford that deal....transitioned AAI pilots are receiving SWA pay/benefits with AAI longevity credit... the company is transitioning AAI pilots in a cost effective manner... since AAI/SWA are two separate systems the synergies have not kicked in and the added cost of paying non transitioned AAI pilots @ SWA rates does not make business since to management. One could argue that the "post merger" announced CBA won by AAI/ALPA was the initial pay raise (influenced heavily by the announcement). SWA has recently announced that the transition will be completed by 2014. Codeshare will begin in 2013...

 

[General Lee]

As for the GL's assertion that the SWAPA should have fought for pay parity for AAI after the SL10 was voted in...well we can fight all we want but if the company won't/can't afford it...ain't gonna happen...rumor has it VDV told GK after SL9 was inked that we could not afford that deal....transitioned AAI pilots are receiving SWA pay/benefits with AAI longevity credit... the company is transitioning AAI pilots in a cost effective manner... since AAI/SWA are two separate systems the synergies have not kicked in and the added cost of paying non transitioned AAI pilots @ SWA rates does not make business since to management. One could argue that the "post merger" announced CBA won by AAI/ALPA was the initial pay raise (influenced heavily by the announcement). SWA has recently announced that the transition will be completed by 2014. Codeshare will begin in 2013...

So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

That is interesting.

And their own union ALPA allows another ALPA carrier(s) do outsourced flying for them as well?

And this guy is going crazy about another airlines two year transition plan?

Makes no sense at all.

 

[General Lee]

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doinug your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs than are coming in(200+ leaving, 70 incoming), adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

Some cities are too small to fly mainline aircraft. This is not that hard to understand. SWA is actually dropping 17 current AT cities because they don't fit the "SWA mold." DL also uses hub and spoke, to smaller sized cities. There will be RJs from now on, the cat is out of the bag. But, DL mainline is recapturing a lot of the cities they lost 10 years ago thanks to the 717s coming, also generating about 1000 new mainline jobs in the process. Dumping more RJs that are coming in, adding 1000 jobs on higher paying mainline 717s. That's good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

 

[General Lee]

Why are you not angry at outsourced flying going to other pilots. Why are you not criticizing your union for not fighting for your pilots to fly those airframes.

Cat out of the bag does not make the problem go away.

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sy-bill]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

You seem to think you could recapture it ALL at once? This airline went through BK where scope was dismantled. This latest contract recaptured a lot of it. That is fixing the problem. It isn't totally fixed, and it may never be. But attempts are being made, for the better. Admit that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

 

[Dash Power]

Originally Posted by General Lee
So, is that the reason? They can't afford it? They are using AT's bag fees. What about the recent announcement of new fees? SWAPA should be all over that. Now that we all know ALPA is leaving eventually (for the AT group), SWAPA should be more proactive for EQUALITY of representation, and try to eliminate the B-scale for the next couple years. Otherwise, it seems like continual punishment. That is my point here.

They have a plan in place. It is what it is and there is an end game in short time. If I was a SWA pilot I would be wondering why we were using my dues to pay for something that has already been overwhelming agreed to by all parties. The only one complaining about this is you. A Delta pilot. Weird.

Are you putting 1% of this same effort opposing non-union labor doing your outsourced flying also? I already know the answer and that would be no. Weird again.

Just because one says Boeing or Airbus and the other says Embraer or Canadair doesn't mean they aren't doing Delta work at 30% of crew cost.

An interesting hypocrisy.

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

 

[General Lee]

Is it ALPA that is fixing the problem with demands to the company?

ALPA? The Dalpa negotiators negotiated it with the company for the new contract. They added a new ratio that gives mainline more of the domestic pie compared with the previous contract, the domestic scope with AK was tightened, the INTL scope (AF/KL/AZ Joint Venture) was tightened in our favor, and the 88 717s were tied in with the 70 new 76 seaters. The 76 seaters ONLY come if the 717s arrive, and the number of 50 seaters will decrease from over 300 to 125 total. That was all just negotiated. Other than that, ALPA or Dalpa can only demand to stay within the contract, and there are people watching the metrics of the Joint Ventures and DCI. That is all you can do. If something is wrong, you bring it up with the company, and if that doesn't work you contact an arbitrator to enforce it through a grievance.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

ALPA and the DAL MEC has not done one thing to stop the outsource flying mentioned. It is completely unreasonable for you to seem concerned about the SWA and Airtran transition that will be completed in two years where you have not, and will not get your own house in order.

Don't be a fool to think that the number of seats on any transport jet is something acceptable to our profession and this industry.

Say what??? Here he goes again, spouting off without ANY facts. The new contract just tightened scope. Are you saying it didn't? WRONG.... RJ numbers were reduced greatly (over 150 additional RJs will be parked than are coming in). INTL and DOM scope tightened (metrics with AK and the INTL JVs). 717 deal that helps mainline recapture routes flown by RJs for the last DECADE. YOU ARE WRONG. Reducing the number of RJs is a great first start, and the only one feasible. If you want to dump 400 plus RJs all at once, you would have to take a 50% paycut, and you know that would NEVER happen. Debate that, you can't.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Don't worry, General. They'll all be eating crow eventually when SWAPA gives away their scope in order to hold on to their pay rates, which Gary is definitely going to be going after. DALPA is going in the right direction. No doubt that SWAPA will be going the opposite direction over the next decade. One of the many reasons that I'm looking to bail.

 

[General Lee]

+1

In a couple the years the transition will be complete and everyone will be on the same scale as what we all agreed to by both parties.

But zero effort by the DAL MEC to eliminate the outsourcing of pilots to other domestic carriers. "Mainline" should not even be a term. It is only there because of the outsourcing of flying jobs. There is no reason a Delta pilot should not be flying a 50 seat jet earning Delta salaries and benefits.

Now that issue is a legitimate concern for a Delta pilot like you. Not the short timeline for transition with SWA.

Dash, ZERO EFFORT? The last contract didn't do anything? Really? ZERO EFFORT? Please support that statement somehow.... Please tell me why SWA is dumping 17 cities currently flown at Airtran? Why don't they find a plane that could be used by SWA pilots, and paid at their current rates? Could that happen? Then tell me why SWA is pulling out of city pairs like SEA to GEG and BOI? How about PHL to PIT? Aren't those city pairs big enough to support a SWA 737?


Bye Bye---General Lee