SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[scoreboardII]

is that 2010 contract the one after SWA bought them?

 

[texman]

is that 2010 contract the one after SWA bought them?

It was approved after the SWA announcement. SWA didn't have any financial influence on it though. What get's me is from 2010 to now a former AT captain bitching about the pay cut. While I do agree to a extent they do make some what less as a SWA FO (not a SR one though), I just can't see how they can make their personal cost of living go up that much in a two year period. So I don't feel sorry for those who did. Let's not forget the 400 dollar pay raise on the medical insurance.

They must of bought that million dollar house like some of our PHX fo's did! Lol!

 

[humveedriver]

AT pilots gave up the defined contribution to their 401k ( different from 9.5 matching), in return for the reduced medical cost. In theory it was a wash. Personally, it made me invest more in my retirement. So that was a good thing. Sure my take home was less, but I was putting more away. I think you are dead right though Texman. The more folks make, typically the more they spend. It's the guys (on both sides) who don't budget on min guarantee that are squawking.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't think the AAI guys are bitching about making less, so much as just trying to set the record straight. Many SWA pilots don't understand that it is paycut going from AAI Capt SWA FO. I think guys are just trying to set the record straight.

Me, I don't care about the pay nearly as much as the QOL, but that horse has been flogged enough, too.

 

[texman]

AT pilots gave up the defined contribution to their 401k ( different from 9.5 matching), in return for the reduced medical cost. In theory it was a wash. Personally, it made me invest more in my retirement. So that was a good thing. Sure my take home was less, but I was putting more away. I think you are dead right though Texman. The more folks make, typically the more they spend. It's the guys (on both sides) who don't budget on min guarantee that are squawking.

You are dead on. So I get the pay to cut thing to a extent, but don't feel sorry for those who overspend once a raise is giving. I guess it is human nature.

 

[bluesideup1]

I don't think the AAI guys are bitching about making less, so much as just trying to set the record straight. Many SWA pilots don't understand that it is paycut going from AAI Capt SWA FO. I think guys are just trying to set the record straight.

Me, I don't care about the pay nearly as much as the QOL, but that horse has been flogged enough, too.

Let me get this straight. Every F.O. that crosses the line from AAI to SW gets a huge pay increase, Every captain that comes over makes more, the same or a little less depending on how they can bid. But in the long run every one of AAI pilots will make far more during their career at SW than they could have even dreamed of at AAI and a small few are complaining that they have taken a small hit for a abbreviated period of time? Are you really that short sighted or do you just like to bitch?

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

 

[ATLplt]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

But, but, but, but, Tyyyyyy.....it's all about the money.

 

[chillidawg]

insult vs argument

done.

 

[waveflyer]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

Yeah, you did- but you did it at air tran- what about the extra 3 years it took me to get the SWA job after air tran offered me their gig as you were upgrading. Does that count for nothing?
We are part of the capitalist system in america aren't we?
Who guaranteed that you could get on with the young growing carrier and none of the risks of doing that (bankruptcy/liquidation- skybus anyone- acquisition) would come true??
Acquisition is a good thing compared to what can happen in this gig- just ask the pilots who got their pension jacked a year or two before they had to retire at 60. And hell, united guys were seeing 3-4 year upgrades less than 5 years before those pensions were stolen.

So you got a quick upgrade- good- who guaranteed you nothing would ever change after that?

The whole bitching deal is very airline immature. I thought I had arrived when I showed up to class at my legacy in 1999. And I can tell you the name of the guy who did guarantee us that we had our last job ever and were all millionaires now. Naive at best in hindsight.
So please- to those of us who have seen the dark side of this industry over generations, you sound like a blubbering idiot bitching about what hardships becoming a SWA pilot is bringing you.
Grab copies of flying the line I &II and Hard landings, then for all happiness sake- count your blessings, not your difficulties real or perceived. By most of your posts Ty, you're too good a dude to get wrapped up in that axle.

 

[bluesideup1]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, you did- but you did it at air tran- what about the extra 3 years it took me to get the SWA job after air tran offered me their gig as you were upgrading. Does that count for nothing?
We are part of the capitalist system in america aren't we?
Who guaranteed that you could get on with the young growing carrier and none of the risks of doing that (bankruptcy/liquidation- skybus anyone- acquisition) would come true??
Acquisition is a good thing compared to what can happen in this gig- just ask the pilots who got their pension jacked a year or two before they had to retire at 60. And hell, united guys were seeing 3-4 year upgrades less than 5 years before those pensions were stolen.

So you got a quick upgrade- good- who guaranteed you nothing would ever change after that?

The whole bitching deal is very airline immature. I thought I had arrived when I showed up to class at my legacy in 1999. And I can tell you the name of the guy who did guarantee us that we had our last job ever and were all millionaires now. Naive at best in hindsight.
So please- to those of us who have seen the dark side of this industry over generations, you sound like a blubbering idiot bitching about what hardships becoming a SWA pilot is bringing you.
Grab copies of flying the line I &II and Hard landings, then for all happiness sake- count your blessings, not your difficulties real or perceived. By most of your posts Ty, you're too good a dude to get wrapped up in that axle.

Wave, if I wanted to bitch, I'd be starting these discussions, not countering them. I'm simply trying to keep some of the facts straight. If a lie gets repeated enough, people believe it.

 

[humveedriver]

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

 

[madjack]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

What I'm trying to tell ya, Sparky, is that my lines right now work 12 days a month, for a lot more pay than that . . . a lot more.

Not "bitching", as you put it, just trying keep it real . . . . there's a difference.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

ATL is one of the few places I get to easily from where I live. No direct flights to any SWA domicile, unless you count a two-hour turboprop flight on Gulfstream to MCO.

 

[madjack]

U can make a whole lot more as a Sr SWA FO...and when u upgrade u will make $220k++ just flying ur line...but u will have to leave the whine at home...hope it ain't ur nature.

 

[madjack]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

 

[waveflyer]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

I'm sure he will- just like he would have pushed for relative seniority for AT had delta stepped up and taken the 717 pilots with their airplanes