SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[Ty Webb]

Go set yourself on fire and see what DOESN'T get pissed on.

Exactly.

Flightinfo used to be a great place to check in, exchange industry and airline info, and trade a few jokes. It's turned into a display case of the least happy SWA FO's . . who come here to come rant, because no one on line will put up with their tantrums.

Wave, you are squarely in that club, along with Queef and Blueboy. YOu guys need to form your own support group . . . . somewhere else.

 

[PCL_128]

What is ridiculous General is the disparity between the way pilot groups are arbitrated and every other airline labor group is arbitrated. Only in pilot arbitrations are facts such as pay, contract, and job stability completely disregarded. When you go into arbitration knowing what the results will be regardless of fact its not fair and equitable its kangaroo court.

What you ignore is that contracts in the pilot world are much different than contracts in the ramper and gate agent world. When a ramper takes a pay cut in bankruptcy, his pay might go down 10%. When a pilot takes a pay cut in bankruptcy, his pay goes down 50%. Raises are similar, with 35%+ raises in new contracts not unheard of for pilots, but anything more than 10% for a ramper or gate agent is virtually never seen. For this reason (the volatility in pilot contracts), trying to base an SLI on CBA disparities would be absurd. The highest paid pilot group one year can be the lowest paid pilot group a decade later. It's a useless metric in SLIs, and arbitrators rightly ignore it.

 

[FDJ2]

What is ridiculous General is the disparity between the way pilot groups are arbitrated and every other airline labor group is arbitrated. Only in pilot arbitrations are facts such as pay, contract, and job stability completely disregarded. When you go into arbitration knowing what the results will be regardless of fact its not fair and equitable its kangaroo court.

Ghetto, arbitrators view pilot seniority integration differently than other employees for a variety of good reasons. Anyone who holds up a ramper or dispatchers integration methodology as an example of what would have happen with a pilot integration ignores history.

Arbitrator Richard Bloch, in the integration of the AWA and US dispatchers, summarized the differences well in footnote 9.

"Moreover, unlike pilot mergers, which often involve companion considerations including aircraft types, differing status and categories and a variety of additional distinctions, the instant case is considerably more basic. These employees, on the other hand, perform the same functions, in essentially the same manner and will operate under a combined agreement that features no fence or any of the other arcane elements peculiar to pilot cases."

At LCC dispatchers were integrated based on DOH, pilots based essentially on category and status.

 

[ATLplt]

With the new contract-

You're welcome for that time value of money-

You're welcome? As if YOU had anything to do with MY ********************ing contract?! That's the most asinine thing I've heard yet. Funny, I don't remember seeing you on the picket line.

You, Red, and madjackhole will probably medical out soon because of an aneurism anyway. Let me help you on your way...I will retire at the top of your list, having never interviewed at SWA or bought a type.

Feel anything yet?

 

[madjack]

My health is fine thank you...your going to fit in well

 

[madjack]

Instead of wasting time on here mayb you should brushing up on 737 systems and FO flows...deal with it and quit whining...

 

[Ty Webb]

Wacky Jackie . . .

You upgraded into a Captain seat we brought to the merger, yet you're on here every day, trying to get cheap shots in at the AirTran pilots whose loss you benefitted from. :erm:

You seem like one of the most unhappy guys around here. Getting "your" upgrade must've been a real let down, if you feel the need to come on here and lecture the rest of us. . . . . If you're not going to enjoy my seat, give it back, you jackhole. :laugh:

 

[Phlintstone]

Senior FO at SW - 151/hr.

Senior FO at AAI - 79/hr.

That's a 191% increase in base pay. So where is the propoganda?
I'm sorry I was only off slightly...9% to be exact.

You can use those numbers because they fit the SWAPA propaganda which you spout. The fact is AT was stalling our contract because it was negotiating with SWA. AT had no motivation to pay us more since that made the books look better. The rates we finally accepted were turned down prior. They were accepted this time in order to move forward with the merger. Once again you spew half truths using figures that fit your argument vice facts.

Phred

 

[Phlintstone]

Tell me exactly what the majority of SWA pilots got from this deal, I'll tell you, nothing.

UNBELIEVEABLE!

Easy!

ALL...every single one on the property got higher seniority within the company. That means better vacations, bidding power...a better QOL and less chance of being furloughed if something major happens. But I forgot it is all about the money with most of you.

SWAPA successfully captured all the CA seats and as a consequence, our senior CAs become super senior FOs. If you believe that is harm, go complain to SC. He is the artisan of the harm done to the FOs QOL who are being pushed down or out of their desired domicile. Be careful what you ask for...you just might get it...and have to live with the consequences.

Phred

 

[madjack]

Ty, take ur own advice and stop talking about the SWA side which u have no idea about (until u transition, then I expect the bitching to stop)

 

[madjack]

Fred

Next u will say the AAI pilots got nothing in the deal...talk about propaganda...at least ur not stooping to character assassination like Ty does when he gets upset...about what I don't know. He will be a MAJOR airline Cappy soon after he transitions...

 

[Phlintstone]

I'd never say that because it is not true. I understand one's view of plan and what that person thinks the other side should feel are skewed by our own prejudices. If that makes any sense.

I think I got mad at wave once but it was a moment of weakness. I try to keep personal attacks out of the banter.

Phred

 

[redflyer65]

You can use those numbers because they fit the SWAPA propaganda which you spout. The fact is AT was stalling our contract because it was negotiating with SWA. AT had no motivation to pay us more since that made the books look better. The rates we finally accepted were turned down prior. They were accepted this time in order to move forward with the merger. Once again you spew half truths using figures that fit your argument vice facts.

Phred

Phred,

Those were your payrates on the date of purchase announcement. You can try to twist those facts until the cows come home, but that WAS the rate before SW stepped in.

If you voted them down before, then cool. But those were the rates you voted for by voting down whatever was on the table.

I understand AFTER the announcementwas made, you decided to say Yes because there was a new future ahead. But you can't debate the fact of what you where getting paid before you or I knew SW was going to purchase AAI.

Even now (after the SW induced contract you have), the difference is over 40%. And those are HOURLY rates. I still stand by the doubling of the FO salary from what you where making beforehand. No propaganda....Those are the FACTS.

 

[Ty Webb]

Phred,

Those were your payrates on the date of purchase announcement. You can try to twist those facts until the cows come home, but that WAS the rate before SW stepped in.

Then, by your logic, your Upgrade and System Seniority should remain what they were "on the date of purchase announcement".

So, if you think it's OK to pin those 2001 rates on us, you should be happy to remain in your pre-merger seat and system seniority as well. Fair is fair, and you're all about the fairness, right?

I'm pretty much done with this teeth-gnashing and b.s., but if you guys want to keep it going, "whine on", as Queef chose to say.

 

[redflyer65]

Ty,

Pinning payrates on you? Hardly. That's what the rates where. I didn't just pull them out of the air.

I know you and Phred want to talk about how us mid to low-level FO's are being screwed by the SW upgrades and the ex-AAI captains coming over as super senior FOs, but here's a newsflash for you...

We mid-level FOs are just exchanging our senior FOs for you. I never thought you should have lost your seat, but it's done.

You want to equate your payrate and quality of life from your contract to a seniority change on our side? Nice try, but that's not even close to reality. What did Airtran pilots have to give coming to the table? There was only one thing....seniority. There wasn't anything else. I'll say again, you (in general) should have kept your seat. Some at the bottom should have lost it....but it should have been based on overall seniority via the combined list.

Your payrates and our payrates where there for all to see before the announcement. Those that want to try and alter those facts to fit their arguement are being disingenuous at best.

 

[Ty Webb]

T

Your payrates and our payrates where there for all to see before the announcement. Those that want to try and alter those facts to fit their arguement are being disingenuous at best.

So were your seniority, our seats, and your future upgrades.

If you can't see that for what it is, well, I guess we have nothing else to discuss, do we?

Might as well leave it alone then. Eventually, you'll figure it out, but until then, see you on the other side.

 

[madjack]

Small fact u like to keep out: u had the seats in SL9...now ur spewing nonsense about how much u make as a regional cappy...on a contract u got because of the acquisition...welcome to the the big leagues and that undeserved SWA cappy seat u will soon sit in (that u stole from a RSW FO)....u doubled down for arbie and blinked...live with it..,

 

[PCL_128]

Regional cappy? Big leagues? I think someone has little man's disease.

 

[Ty Webb]

Regional cappy? Big leagues? I think someone has little man's disease.

Microphallus, or micropenis, is defined as a stretched penile length of less than 2.5 standard deviations (SDs) below the mean for age. Traditionally, the term micropenis refers to a penis that is otherwise normally formed, and the term microphallus has been used when associated hypospadia is present.


Hey, Wacky Jacky-

While there might not be a cure for your condition, you should still seek help. You might be able to find a support group to help you deal with your condition.

Best of luck,
Ty

 

[redflyer65]

So were your seniority, our seats, and your future upgrades.

If you can't see that for what it is, well, I guess we have nothing else to discuss, do we?

Might as well leave it alone then. Eventually, you'll figure it out, but until then, see you on the other side.

You guys gain a 40-90% pay increase at a larger, more stable company and are bitching?

I really didn't get much from this deal. Maybe a 2% seniority gain (among 8000 pilots) and no 'early' upgrade from what I was already looking at. I wish I could have gotten a 50% payraise, or stock, or options or something. And I know what you lost. Money isn't everything...you lost your base/days off... and now will have to commute. That sucks.


Ty,

I hope to see you on this side and hope you enjoy it when you come over (minus the commute). It's a great place to work.