SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[bluesideup1]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, you did- but you did it at air tran- what about the extra 3 years it took me to get the SWA job after air tran offered me their gig as you were upgrading. Does that count for nothing?
We are part of the capitalist system in america aren't we?
Who guaranteed that you could get on with the young growing carrier and none of the risks of doing that (bankruptcy/liquidation- skybus anyone- acquisition) would come true??
Acquisition is a good thing compared to what can happen in this gig- just ask the pilots who got their pension jacked a year or two before they had to retire at 60. And hell, united guys were seeing 3-4 year upgrades less than 5 years before those pensions were stolen.

So you got a quick upgrade- good- who guaranteed you nothing would ever change after that?

The whole bitching deal is very airline immature. I thought I had arrived when I showed up to class at my legacy in 1999. And I can tell you the name of the guy who did guarantee us that we had our last job ever and were all millionaires now. Naive at best in hindsight.
So please- to those of us who have seen the dark side of this industry over generations, you sound like a blubbering idiot bitching about what hardships becoming a SWA pilot is bringing you.
Grab copies of flying the line I &II and Hard landings, then for all happiness sake- count your blessings, not your difficulties real or perceived. By most of your posts Ty, you're too good a dude to get wrapped up in that axle.

Wave, if I wanted to bitch, I'd be starting these discussions, not countering them. I'm simply trying to keep some of the facts straight. If a lie gets repeated enough, people believe it.

 

[humveedriver]

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

 

[madjack]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

What I'm trying to tell ya, Sparky, is that my lines right now work 12 days a month, for a lot more pay than that . . . a lot more.

Not "bitching", as you put it, just trying keep it real . . . . there's a difference.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

ATL is one of the few places I get to easily from where I live. No direct flights to any SWA domicile, unless you count a two-hour turboprop flight on Gulfstream to MCO.

 

[madjack]

U can make a whole lot more as a Sr SWA FO...and when u upgrade u will make $220k++ just flying ur line...but u will have to leave the whine at home...hope it ain't ur nature.

 

[madjack]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

 

[waveflyer]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

I'm sure he will- just like he would have pushed for relative seniority for AT had delta stepped up and taken the 717 pilots with their airplanes

 

[zippy32]

That $160k is silly because I'm a 5 yr FO and I made $150k last year on 4 yr pay and not a single bit of premium. A senior AT guy coming over will make north of $200k. And every single FAT I talk to over here is confirming that fact. How many of those guys have you talked to Ty? They seem extremely happy.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sure he will- just like he would have pushed for relative seniority for AT had delta stepped up and taken the 717 pilots with their airplanes

I never said that. I look at what each airline brings to the table at the time if the merger. If the airlines are of equal size and bring both domestic and INTL flying with close sized planes, it might be relative plus or minus a few points based on longevity. Any arbitrator would allow some of the Captains to stay Captains, especially if they bring planes and orders to the newly merged carrier. I bet some of the senior guys at AT would have remained Capt at SWA or DL or any legacy if using arbitration. There would also be fences put up by those same arbitrators, depending on plane sizes (An Arbitrator fenced the 747 at NWA for 20 years to the Republic pilots). But, AT brought 737s to the SWA merger, and not giving Capt slots (at least some Capt slots) was not fair IMO, and I'm guessing many AT pilots feel the same way. As far as the 717s go at DL, those planes are being replaced at SWA by 737s, new and used. Sounds like nobody will be furloughed, which is good for everyone.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

What I'm trying to tell ya, Sparky, is that my lines right now work 12 days a month, for a lot more pay than that . . . a lot more.

Not "bitching", as you put it, just trying keep it real . . . . there's a difference.

Thanks for removing your number Ty. Senior FO's here make that year in and year out. That same 152/hr you were making as an AAI CA is remarkable the same number as the top SW FO payscale.

I completely agree with you about losing your base. There will be some on our side losing their base as well. Sucks for all involved in that regard.

 

[bluesideup1]

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

Yes you are still talking out of your @ss. What forced commute are you talking about? Most captains that have come over have the ability to bid ANY base they want. This means the vast majority are now either not commuting or have a commute that is shorter than it was. NONE of the captains that come over will be forced to go to OAK or any of the other junior bases they will be able to bid ANY of the 9 bases that SWA offers.

Your argument is weak and predicated on the very few that will have a hard time transitioning either due to location or pride while the vast majority of Captains coming over will see a better commute or none at all. Your pay issue is also lacking when you are only able to look at the next 18 months and just like you said you still have over 3/4 of your captains at AAI so the worst case scenario they most likely won't but may have to take an insignificant pay cut (but a lot better seniority) for less than 18 months before they get a very large pay raise.

P.S. The other 50 percent of your group gets a huge pay raise to come over to WN.

 

[Crash Pad]

Ty left out one small detail. We don't know how senior SWA is going because only a very small group of captains have 737 FO awarded.