SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[Ty Webb]

Ty, you really need to go re-read Side Letter 9 Paragraph H. You just aren't getting that the Captain Retention Slots did NOT go away if the B717s went away. They were designed specifically for seasonal downgrades and in case the the B717 fleet did not make it to lease expiration. The Merger Committee listened to Gary Kelly's B717 comments on July 14, 2011. The MEC ignored what he said.

Oh, I "get it". I think I "get it" more than you "get it".

I also "get" that your revisionist rantings on here and our internal forum only serve to make you look more more like a sycophant with Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[madjack]

Insult vs argument

 

[Ty Webb]

Why don't you just send him a thank you card.

 

[Spud]

Ty, you really need to go re-read Side Letter 9 Paragraph H. You just aren't getting that the Captain Retention Slots did NOT go away if the B717s went away. They were designed specifically for seasonal downgrades and in case the the B717 fleet did not make it to lease expiration. The Merger Committee listened to Gary Kelly's B717 comments on July 14, 2011. The MEC ignored what he said.

Do Tell!

 

[maxblast72]

Insult vs argument

That is what they do when they have nothing to back up their point. PCL128 ran into the same thing when he did a good job of helping the AirTran reserve pilots and First Officers secure significant gains in Contract 2010.

 

[scoreboardII]

is that 2010 contract the one after SWA bought them?

 

[texman]

is that 2010 contract the one after SWA bought them?

It was approved after the SWA announcement. SWA didn't have any financial influence on it though. What get's me is from 2010 to now a former AT captain bitching about the pay cut. While I do agree to a extent they do make some what less as a SWA FO (not a SR one though), I just can't see how they can make their personal cost of living go up that much in a two year period. So I don't feel sorry for those who did. Let's not forget the 400 dollar pay raise on the medical insurance.

They must of bought that million dollar house like some of our PHX fo's did! Lol!

 

[humveedriver]

AT pilots gave up the defined contribution to their 401k ( different from 9.5 matching), in return for the reduced medical cost. In theory it was a wash. Personally, it made me invest more in my retirement. So that was a good thing. Sure my take home was less, but I was putting more away. I think you are dead right though Texman. The more folks make, typically the more they spend. It's the guys (on both sides) who don't budget on min guarantee that are squawking.

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't think the AAI guys are bitching about making less, so much as just trying to set the record straight. Many SWA pilots don't understand that it is paycut going from AAI Capt SWA FO. I think guys are just trying to set the record straight.

Me, I don't care about the pay nearly as much as the QOL, but that horse has been flogged enough, too.

 

[texman]

AT pilots gave up the defined contribution to their 401k ( different from 9.5 matching), in return for the reduced medical cost. In theory it was a wash. Personally, it made me invest more in my retirement. So that was a good thing. Sure my take home was less, but I was putting more away. I think you are dead right though Texman. The more folks make, typically the more they spend. It's the guys (on both sides) who don't budget on min guarantee that are squawking.

You are dead on. So I get the pay to cut thing to a extent, but don't feel sorry for those who overspend once a raise is giving. I guess it is human nature.

 

[bluesideup1]

I don't think the AAI guys are bitching about making less, so much as just trying to set the record straight. Many SWA pilots don't understand that it is paycut going from AAI Capt SWA FO. I think guys are just trying to set the record straight.

Me, I don't care about the pay nearly as much as the QOL, but that horse has been flogged enough, too.

Let me get this straight. Every F.O. that crosses the line from AAI to SW gets a huge pay increase, Every captain that comes over makes more, the same or a little less depending on how they can bid. But in the long run every one of AAI pilots will make far more during their career at SW than they could have even dreamed of at AAI and a small few are complaining that they have taken a small hit for a abbreviated period of time? Are you really that short sighted or do you just like to bitch?

 

[Ty Webb]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

 

[ATLplt]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

But, but, but, but, Tyyyyyy.....it's all about the money.

 

[chillidawg]

insult vs argument

done.

 

[waveflyer]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

Yeah, you did- but you did it at air tran- what about the extra 3 years it took me to get the SWA job after air tran offered me their gig as you were upgrading. Does that count for nothing?
We are part of the capitalist system in america aren't we?
Who guaranteed that you could get on with the young growing carrier and none of the risks of doing that (bankruptcy/liquidation- skybus anyone- acquisition) would come true??
Acquisition is a good thing compared to what can happen in this gig- just ask the pilots who got their pension jacked a year or two before they had to retire at 60. And hell, united guys were seeing 3-4 year upgrades less than 5 years before those pensions were stolen.

So you got a quick upgrade- good- who guaranteed you nothing would ever change after that?

The whole bitching deal is very airline immature. I thought I had arrived when I showed up to class at my legacy in 1999. And I can tell you the name of the guy who did guarantee us that we had our last job ever and were all millionaires now. Naive at best in hindsight.
So please- to those of us who have seen the dark side of this industry over generations, you sound like a blubbering idiot bitching about what hardships becoming a SWA pilot is bringing you.
Grab copies of flying the line I &II and Hard landings, then for all happiness sake- count your blessings, not your difficulties real or perceived. By most of your posts Ty, you're too good a dude to get wrapped up in that axle.