SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[madjack]

Fred

Next u will say the AAI pilots got nothing in the deal...talk about propaganda...at least ur not stooping to character assassination like Ty does when he gets upset...about what I don't know. He will be a MAJOR airline Cappy soon after he transitions...

 

[Phlintstone]

I'd never say that because it is not true. I understand one's view of plan and what that person thinks the other side should feel are skewed by our own prejudices. If that makes any sense.

I think I got mad at wave once but it was a moment of weakness. I try to keep personal attacks out of the banter.

Phred

 

[redflyer65]

You can use those numbers because they fit the SWAPA propaganda which you spout. The fact is AT was stalling our contract because it was negotiating with SWA. AT had no motivation to pay us more since that made the books look better. The rates we finally accepted were turned down prior. They were accepted this time in order to move forward with the merger. Once again you spew half truths using figures that fit your argument vice facts.

Phred

Phred,

Those were your payrates on the date of purchase announcement. You can try to twist those facts until the cows come home, but that WAS the rate before SW stepped in.

If you voted them down before, then cool. But those were the rates you voted for by voting down whatever was on the table.

I understand AFTER the announcementwas made, you decided to say Yes because there was a new future ahead. But you can't debate the fact of what you where getting paid before you or I knew SW was going to purchase AAI.

Even now (after the SW induced contract you have), the difference is over 40%. And those are HOURLY rates. I still stand by the doubling of the FO salary from what you where making beforehand. No propaganda....Those are the FACTS.

 

[Ty Webb]

Phred,

Those were your payrates on the date of purchase announcement. You can try to twist those facts until the cows come home, but that WAS the rate before SW stepped in.

Then, by your logic, your Upgrade and System Seniority should remain what they were "on the date of purchase announcement".

So, if you think it's OK to pin those 2001 rates on us, you should be happy to remain in your pre-merger seat and system seniority as well. Fair is fair, and you're all about the fairness, right?

I'm pretty much done with this teeth-gnashing and b.s., but if you guys want to keep it going, "whine on", as Queef chose to say.

 

[redflyer65]

Ty,

Pinning payrates on you? Hardly. That's what the rates where. I didn't just pull them out of the air.

I know you and Phred want to talk about how us mid to low-level FO's are being screwed by the SW upgrades and the ex-AAI captains coming over as super senior FOs, but here's a newsflash for you...

We mid-level FOs are just exchanging our senior FOs for you. I never thought you should have lost your seat, but it's done.

You want to equate your payrate and quality of life from your contract to a seniority change on our side? Nice try, but that's not even close to reality. What did Airtran pilots have to give coming to the table? There was only one thing....seniority. There wasn't anything else. I'll say again, you (in general) should have kept your seat. Some at the bottom should have lost it....but it should have been based on overall seniority via the combined list.

Your payrates and our payrates where there for all to see before the announcement. Those that want to try and alter those facts to fit their arguement are being disingenuous at best.

 

[Ty Webb]

T

Your payrates and our payrates where there for all to see before the announcement. Those that want to try and alter those facts to fit their arguement are being disingenuous at best.

So were your seniority, our seats, and your future upgrades.

If you can't see that for what it is, well, I guess we have nothing else to discuss, do we?

Might as well leave it alone then. Eventually, you'll figure it out, but until then, see you on the other side.

 

[madjack]

Small fact u like to keep out: u had the seats in SL9...now ur spewing nonsense about how much u make as a regional cappy...on a contract u got because of the acquisition...welcome to the the big leagues and that undeserved SWA cappy seat u will soon sit in (that u stole from a RSW FO)....u doubled down for arbie and blinked...live with it..,

 

[PCL_128]

Regional cappy? Big leagues? I think someone has little man's disease.

 

[Ty Webb]

Regional cappy? Big leagues? I think someone has little man's disease.

Microphallus, or micropenis, is defined as a stretched penile length of less than 2.5 standard deviations (SDs) below the mean for age. Traditionally, the term micropenis refers to a penis that is otherwise normally formed, and the term microphallus has been used when associated hypospadia is present.


Hey, Wacky Jacky-

While there might not be a cure for your condition, you should still seek help. You might be able to find a support group to help you deal with your condition.

Best of luck,
Ty

 

[redflyer65]

So were your seniority, our seats, and your future upgrades.

If you can't see that for what it is, well, I guess we have nothing else to discuss, do we?

Might as well leave it alone then. Eventually, you'll figure it out, but until then, see you on the other side.

You guys gain a 40-90% pay increase at a larger, more stable company and are bitching?

I really didn't get much from this deal. Maybe a 2% seniority gain (among 8000 pilots) and no 'early' upgrade from what I was already looking at. I wish I could have gotten a 50% payraise, or stock, or options or something. And I know what you lost. Money isn't everything...you lost your base/days off... and now will have to commute. That sucks.


Ty,

I hope to see you on this side and hope you enjoy it when you come over (minus the commute). It's a great place to work.

 

[madjack]

At least I have one.... Hows that cramping working out for u?

 

[Tripower455]

UNBELIEVEABLE!

Easy!

ALL...every single one on the property got higher seniority within the company. That means better vacations, bidding power...a better QOL and less chance of being furloughed if something major happens. But I forgot it is all about the money with most of you.

Personally, I've gotten absolutely nothing out of this deal. The same bidding power, the same vacations, the same QOL (actually a little worse nowadays, but that's not the fault of the acquisition) and the same chance of being furloughed.

Ask the displaced (or soon to be) MCO, BWI and MDW FO's about their increased benefits as a result of this wonderful deal. Be sure to mention "Global Seniority" and "No Harm". You'll get an earful.

SWAPA successfully captured all the CA seats and as a consequence, our senior CAs become super senior FOs. If you believe that is harm, go complain to SC. He is the artisan of the harm done to the FOs QOL who are being pushed down or out of their desired domicile. Be careful what you ask for...you just might get it...and have to live with the consequences.

Phred

These guys are the only SW folks to see any kind of benefit from this deal. And unless they live or move out west, the benefit will be be short lived, IMHO.

I know a few that bid back to FO after a few months because the difference in pay is not that much when you compare a Capt's reserve line plus commuting expenses/days with a decent, in domicile, FO hard line.

FWIW, we have MANY FOs passing on upgrade nowadays because the raise is simply not enough to make up for the QOL hit. Basically, as an in domicile FO, they can work the same number of days they would spend commuting to OAK to sit reserve as a Capt, and break pretty close to even.

The only real downsides to staying in the right seat is that they are constantly getting more AT folks put above them, and if they have to go out on medical, it is paid at FO, rather than Capt rates.

 

[redflyer65]

These guys (the upgrades) are the only SW folks to see any kind of benefit from this deal. And unless they live or move out west, the benefit will be be short lived, IMHO.

Tri, your exactly right. The only people on the SW side that saw an immediate change, and the downside is they will be junior for a long time after 2015.

RF

 

[HowardBorden]

But, zero arbitration awards have NOT included Capt slots at BOTH sides

What is ridiculous is that you keep spouting this falsehood. Do some research before you make statements that show you clearly have no idea what you are talking about!

 

[JT12345]

You really think SWA management had anything to do with our pay increase and contract then why did they not just wait for us to go on strike or get a deal on our own? If you really think SWA did it as a favor to us you are truly naive.

Kinda hard to merge a company with the pilots on strike, and they wanted AAI for some strange reason??? And not to do the SWA pilots any favors or AAI pilots. Why did SWA not wait for our so called pilot strike to run the AAI out of business, and then just pick up the scraps. If we were that bad of a company why not wait 2 years for the bankruptcy? That is their timing and our leverage. Who created this timing btw. Maybe they did not want someone else to buy us because we would still be there in another form or maybe they did not think they would get what they wanted in bankruptcy of AAI from a strike or post contract.

Pretty simple. They wanted us out of the way real bad, and they wanted what we have. And who do the AAI pilots have to thank for SWA wanting to buy us? As far as I am concerned we compelled someone to buy us and deserving on either side has nothing to do with it.

With AAI expanding into many of SWA markets and shutting SWA out is a main reason for this merger IMHO. It was not to do their pilots or our pilots any favors. It was a quick and cheaper way to grow than from within. The companies are better as a whole. I will give the deal that; unless the pilots keep up their holier than thou attitude. I will even say that on both sides.