SWA culture!

[dicko]

And before you make the argument that

Never start a sentence with "and". Or a RT transmission ....

 

[dicko]

GL, if Delta was acquiring AAI, and you had AAI posters telling you that they were hoping/expecting for relative seniority in the SLI, then your reaction would not be unlike SWA posters'.

And. History shows they would have handled it much more professionally than you seem to be.

So far .....

 

[texman]

Gen, I want it to be fair too. Nobody on FI can really give a true definition of fair. Yes we swa guys have our opinions and so do AT guy's. You are the guy that likes to root for the under dog, and that is cool. But give it a rest. As far as SLI talks, I have been told they are going great. The AT guys are great, level headed and smart. They have represented AT in a positive light.

So there ya go Gen some positive stuff going on. Fair will be fair. By the way when we do come up with a fair SLI, get ready! We will scratch tooth and nail to take your market share. Not being cocky, just realistic. Its all good.

 

[Flycatcher99]

And. History shows they would have handled it much more professionally than you seem to be.

So far .....

And has history given us a situation in which delta acquired a company like air tran?

But, no. Not that I'm aware of. (dangling preposition!)

 

[Kenney G]

General,


I don't think any SW pilots are worried about arbitration at all. Gary won't let this sink 40 years of progress and profits. No cockiness, just the facts. Sorry they don't line up with your Spin.

RF

What exactly does that mean? Would certain arbitrated rulings cause SWA to sink 40 years of progress and profits?

 

[redflyer65]

What exactly does that mean? Would certain arbitrated rulings cause SWA to sink 40 years of progress and profits?

It means what it says..you never know what comes out the other end of the arbitration grinder, even with the huge stack of gains on the AAI side to be had.

So yes, a bad SLI (list) for the SW pilots would probably end in the list never being utilized by Gary. The facts are the facts, if people want to throw their head in the sand, then so be it.

I still think this thing will be negotiated, but you never know..

For Airtran, they can negotiate all the other items along with the SLI now, or let it go to arbitration and then let SWAPA figure out the rest of the integration/contract items.

 

[Music]

So yes, a bad SLI (list) for the SW pilots would probably end in the list never being utilized by Gary.

So Red, let's cut through the BS and summarize what you're inferring:

If a negotiated SLI is not reached, and it goes to Arbitration the only result that will be acceptable is one where the AirTran pilots are stapled (or nearly stapled). If the Arbitration results in anything other than that, SWAPA will litigate the BINDING Arbitration result, ala USAPA, FAPA, and tie the implementation in the courts. This will FORCE Gary into furloughing all of the AirTran pilots, thus creating a slew of upgrade opportunities for SWA FOs.

Is that what you really mean to say?

 

[redflyer65]

I'll be frank, the position that the AAI MC find themselves is a tough one.

SWAPA won't have to 'litigate' the binding arbitration at all(ie, USAPA). Gary Kelly is the one that either will or will not use the list. This is Gary's purchase and he has to let this play out to the best abilities of both SWAPA and AAI ALPA. We are all hoping for a negotiated outcome so we can all move forward. If this goes to arbitration, then all bets are off...exactly as the AAI MC is finding out via there email to the pilot group.

I didn't set this up this way, but if you don't believe it could be an option, you've been living in a cave. I hope that NO ONE gets furloughed from any of this.

Upgrading at Southwest is not the be all, end all for me. It could be for others, everyone has their perspective on what's important.

And just to be clear, there has been absolutely no talk of anyone being furloughed from either side.

 

[Tripower455]

Man, the troll comes on here and throws a few grenades, and you guys fall on them. Every time.

Why are you guys giving ANY credence to what a wanna be has to say about something that doesn't involve him in any way?

 

[Empennage]

We are all hoping for a negotiated outcome so we can all move forward.

Red, I cannot speak for you, but I think this is the point you are trying to make.

Either way it is the bottom line. Everything else becomes speculation.

 

[dicko]

So yes, a bad SLI (list) for the SW pilots would probably end in the list never being utilized by Gary. .

Red,

I think this is a fantasy based on your interpretation of "harm".

Do you really think that your Management will interpret the gain or loss of a few percentage points of seniority to be "harm".

I think you'll be asked to soldier on and look to the future.

 

[redflyer65]

Dicko,

I agree with you...a few precentage points either way, let's rock on.

A bad arbitrated SLI from the SWAPA side of the house? I'm not so sure Gary is gonna look the other way. There's been plenty of behind the scenes input from management, so they are very update on what we've discussed and where we both are.

Empennage,

If you elect not to look past the negotiated option, then that's cool. I would venture to say the AAI MC might talk a little more about it than they have already in their recent email.

I hope we can have something done in the next 30 days or so. First round on Lear and Ty, just kidding!

RF

 

[Music]

And just to be clear, there has been absolutely no talk of anyone being furloughed from either side.

And what exactly should we infer from all of the "Gary's not gonna let this happen" rhetoric?

Look, I hope this is done without Arbitration too, but this 'threatening' rhetoric has got to stop. What do you or anyone else spewing it hope to do anyway? Frighten AirTran pilots into calling our union reps and demanding that we settle or else? Permanently yield the fact that you are better than us? All of the above? Or is it that you just 'get off' on threatening others?

I really am trying to figure out the reasonability behind these tactics. Or maybe it's that new behavior science disorder, "Aggressive/Passive".

 

[GuppyWN]

How 'bout we let the unions and SWA work this out. Until we have something to vote on we're just along for the ride.

Gup

 

[redflyer65]

And what exactly should we infer from all of the "Gary's not gonna let this happen" rhetoric?

Infer whatever you want, or not. Gup is right in the fact that we're all along for the ride and Gary is at the helm. Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out. See you guys on the other side.

Cheers

 

[dicko]

Dicko,

I agree with you...a few precentage points either way, let's rock on.

No worries. At least we have a better idea now about what you'd consider to be "bad". I'll admit that wasn't what I thought, you thought. If that makes any sense.

That is the problem with an arbitrated SLI. It could go very badly for either group. I hope that a panel of three will force them to leave the Ether at home.

We'll see what happens on 7 July. Apparently SWA management are attending the meeting. Perhaps a miracle ?

It's nice to know that there is now management in charge that is fully capable of pulling this off.

 

[redflyer65]

Well stated buddy.

Just a week away. Will be interesting to see what transpires.

Have a good holiday weekend guys.

RF

 

[Dan Roman]

Infer whatever you want, or not. Gup is right in the fact that we're all along for the ride and Gary is at the helm. Gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out. See you guys on the other side.

Cheers

Well you'll think I am bashing here ( I'm not). But it seems to me it's not just up to "Gary" either. There are legal issues and stockholder issues that trump what any pilot thinks. The bottom line is if SWA wants to have a hub in ATL they will have to merge the two airlines. If the AirTran pilots got something forced on them that was not considered fair, SWA would have a USAir situation on their hand.
Seems pretty simple to me, is that bashing?

 

[densoo]

Happened again today on Houston center around 1 - 130 pm. Stuck mic, talking about how when "the south was settled everyone was so independent and now everyone is looking for handouts." When ATC changed the next plane's freq, this same voice acknowledged the freq change and it was a SWA crew. After hearing the other SWA pilot's rant, it was weird to be hearing another one live.

 

[Lonestar]

The "same voice" huh? Right.

 

[densoo]

The "same voice" huh? Right.

Without a doubt.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Gen, I want it to be fair too. Nobody on FI can really give a true definition of fair.

Wrong. I can give a true definition of what's fair. Remember, I have no dog in this fight, but here's what's fair:

AAI first turned a wheel as Valujet in October 1993.

Place all SWA pilots hired prior to October 93 on the list. Ratio the remaining pilots on the list. Period, end of story.

The arbitrator can make a QUICK buck on this one.

 

[tico]

Another question for the smart guys...Gup and Ty as the mediators....when tbe sun settles gently in to the west on this issue and there are only SWA pilots(no more airtran/valujet)....then what?

 

[Ty Webb]

Another question for the smart guys...Gup and Ty as the mediators....when tbe sun settles gently in to the west on this issue and there are only SWA pilots(no more airtran/valujet)....then what?

According to Dr. Seuss, we " . . . forget about stars, and whether they had one, or not, upon thars". .
That sounds a lot better than the alternative. :beer:

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Well you'll think I am bashing here ( I'm not). But it seems to me it's not just up to "Gary" either. There are legal issues and stockholder issues that trump what any pilot thinks. The bottom line is if SWA wants to have a hub in ATL they will have to merge the two airlines. If the AirTran pilots got something forced on them that was not considered fair, SWA would have a USAir situation on their hand.
Seems pretty simple to me, is that bashing?

Why would Gary have to merge the airlines to take Atlanta? He can use Guadalupe planes or Southwest planes for whatever he pleases.

 

[flynvixen]

Interestingly Vixen you are aware of this fact. So how about trying to help the poor and unemployed and give them a chance to get a job to service your cabin, push some chairs and load some bags ?

You said "everybody is looking for the work to get done at the lowest price" and I could not agree more. But by continuously doing what you are doing, you are not doing it for a low price, but you are doing it for free.

And by the way: I too started on the ramp many years ago, got my hands dirty and know what it's like outside of my flight deck. And it's not about helping out once or twice, it's not about "I'm better than the other folks".

You and many others go the extra mile, without a doubt with the best intentions, but how far are you willing to go ? How many extra miles are you willing to take ? What's next ? Fuel your own aircraft, make your own flight release, help out with the boarding process ? Where does it stop ?

You have been accusing me and some others here of being "better" or "above" or whatever you wrote. Well Sir, have you ever:
cleaned or will be willing to clean your aircraft's lavatories one of these days, just to help with an on time departure ?
I bet I know the answer. So far for "elitist thinking".

Have a good night and lighten up. BS.

Black Sheep, you should stop listening to Obama and his spread the wealth around mantra. Airlines are not in business to provide jobs and provide benefits to as many people as possible. They are in business to provide a product that the public will pay for at a price that will return a profit for the stock holders and the BOD.

Frankly the poor in this country need a swift kick in their poor a$$'s but as long as we continue to pay them 99 weeks of unemployment I don't see them getting with the work program for 98 weeks or so.

To answer your other question, when does it stop........it does not stop as long as I want my company to be successful and provide the pay check that makes my way of life possible. If I don't look out for my company's well being then my well being may be at risk. I am not interested in seeing my company pay more than necessary for work.

I am not interested in having a special group that cleans and before you know it we have a wacko union in the house that demands this group only cleans the left side of the airplanes seat and another group cleans the right side and another group straightens seat belts ect ect ect

I think you get my point all this specialty stuff, done to require the max amount of people to get anything done. That is the way you kill your company by doing with 40 people what another company can do with 10.

Just look at the great service and the price the tax payer pays to have the TSA. You could bring in a contractor that is overseen by the FAA or a much smaller TSA and get at least the same crappy results we get from the TSA but for much less money, and man power.

Staple Staple

 

[Ty Webb]

Why would Gary have to merge the airlines to take Atlanta? He can use Guadalupe planes or Southwest planes for whatever he pleases.

1) Guadalupe Holdings doesn't exist anymore. It was only in existence for a few minutes. Check out recent press releases about AirTran- they now say "AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of Southwest Airlines" . . . . no reference to Guadalupe. It's spelled out in the Merger Agreement.

2) Until the carriers are combined, your contract and ours both prevent any codeshare from happening. Without a codeshare, you can serve ATL but not connect with AirTran passengers.

Regds,
TW

 

[Dan Roman]

1) Guadalupe Holdings doesn't exist anymore. It was only in existence for a few minutes. Check out recent press releases about AirTran- they now say "AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of Southwest Airlines" . . . . no reference to Guadalupe. It's spelled out in the Merger Agreement.

2) Until the carriers are combined, your contract and ours both prevent any codeshare from happening. Without a codeshare, you can serve ATL but not connect with AirTran passengers.

Regds,
TW

....and he cannot use those gates and those aircraft without using the Air Tran employees, they came with the deal.

 

[ASADFW7]

bla bla bla, lets keep working on a negotiated agreement, and stop putting imaginary guns to the heads of other employees.

 

[MILF Hunter]

1) Guadalupe Holdings doesn't exist anymore. It was only in existence for a few minutes. Check out recent press releases about AirTran- they now say "AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of Southwest Airlines" . . . . no reference to Guadalupe. It's spelled out in the Merger Agreement.

2) Until the carriers are combined, your contract and ours both prevent any codeshare from happening. Without a codeshare, you can serve ATL but not connect with AirTran passengers.

Regds,
TW

You're right Ty, the wholly-owned sub is called AirTran Airways...for now. If SWA chooses to keep you as a wholly-owned, they can name you whatever they please.

Regarding codeshare, you're almost half right. Though our current contract prohibits domestic codeshare, I'm quite sure our pilots would be willing to waive that part under certain circumstances. As far as your contract, don't be foolish enough to think any language in you new contract can prevent SWA from doing whatever it wants with you.

There's a reason your MC is so actively requesting that your group lower its expectations lately. They know what can and can't happen. Listen closely to them when they explain it to you.