SWA culture!

[On Your Six]

Maybe, someday, if you don't completely alienate every real pilot out there with your complete and incessant BS, you might actually get an airline job.

But have an out, because I don't think you can hack flying a real airplane.

Now, go back to MS Flight sim. The adults are talking.

Which of the 3 G's do you date? All of them? From Houston?


OYS

 

[flynvixen]

Which of the 3 G's do you date? All of them? From Houston?


OYS

4 G's coming soon

Staple Staple

 

[tomgoodman]

If I'm late to the airplane (connections, etc), no the secretary won't. The Captain will, though. He'll probably have all my preflight done also. As I slide into my seat with 137 pax already on board,he'll give me a "take your time but I think I got most of it done." A couple minutes later we push.

One of our CRM instructors asked "What would you do if your F/O shows up at the airplane five minutes before pushback?" An old Captain shrugged and replied "If he beats me, he beats me."

Seriously, the SWA culture as described here sounds a lot like the Delta of 30 years ago. We had our own "Herb" named Dave Garrett. Yeah, I know, things changed.

 

[dicko]

I don't know what to make of the 'culture'.

Just recently I was on the hotel van with three Southwest crews. No one choose to speak, it was the quietest (most awkward) ride to the hotel I've been on. While this by itself is probably nothing, when we can't even speak to each other, I wonder how we got here.

I think you misinterpreted the situation. It's not the case that SWAPA is trying to create as much animosity as possible in order to sink this deal.

What you saw was this; They were afraid that if they spoke, they'd start babbling profanities and homophobic remarks like Mel Gibson with tourettes.

 

[Lonestar]

Seriously Crash Pad???

I thought with all that culture we would see the first super culture seniority integration. I thought it would be fast and painless. I guess I'm a little surprised. It turns out Southwest pilots are like any other pilot group. I don't see them as any different from the least cultured pilots: the world renowned USAir group.

If you read Nuts as you indicated, you would know that part of the 'Culture' is our 'Warrior Spirit'. The history of SWA is paved with battles, and we have been the victor in nearly every case.

You misunderstood our culture to mean we would lie down and present you with all that is ours. We feel fortunate to work for SWA. We know how hard we worked to get here, and then continued working hard to make this an even better place. We do not take lightly the idea of handing all that we have earned over to anyone in the name of 'Culture'.

I'm starting to think you are the same as every pilot group just with a slightly better contract.

This statement shows your unrealistic views on this debate because like it or not, and regardless of how we got it, our contract is far superior to most. Particularly your own. At least be realistic when you rant.

Pay attention to your MC as they spend time in your lounge explaining to you how much better our contract is, how much stronger our company is, and how a number of SLI scenarios WILL do harm to SWA pilots. I hear they have been explaining this to you for more than a week now. They are the experts. They are your only constant in your disfunctional union. Heed their words.

 

[Tripower455]

Which of the 3 G's do you date? All of them? From Houston?


OYS

None of the above......

 

[mayoplane]

Dont get close.

swa sucks! Pay, people, bases, theres nothing great about SWA. Quit now and go elsewhere!!

 

[Quiet Flight]

Since Southwest has purchased my airline I have had to hear no less than one billion times about the amazing culture at Southwest. I did my homework and read the book Nuts.

The topic of seniority integration has come up and I thought with all that culture we would see the first super culture seniority integration. I thought it would be fast and painless. I guess I'm a little surprised. It turns out Southwest pilots are like any other pilot group. I don't see them as any different from the least cultured pilots: the world renowned USAir group.

The poor airmanship of Southwest has also allowed us to see what they do on an average trip. It turns out they have the same conversation that we have all had every trip of our careers. Why god can't I get one hot flight attendant on a long overnight? I foolishly thought the super cultured, culture pros, of the SWA flight deck would say things like: "that Edith sure can get people boarded despite her age".

So can some SWA guys chime in and explain to me what the SWA culture means as a pilot? Do I pick up more open time? Do I talk more with the customers? Do I make it work when my numbers are a little off? What do I do to be a more "cultured"?

I'm starting to think you are the same as every pilot group just with a slightly better contract.

It sucks. Don't work here. Quit being a Tranny today and go back to the "massage parlor" you worked at during flight school. You will HATE it here. Pay isn't worth it. Draconian work rules. Horrible relationship with mgmt. Quit your job now. Immediately.

 

[Music]

I think you misinterpreted the situation. It's not the case that SWAPA is trying to create as much animosity as possible in order to sink this deal.

What you saw was this; They were afraid that if they spoke, they'd start babbling profanities and homophobic remarks like Mel Gibson with tourettes.

Yeah, I guess that's it.

 

[Black Sheep]

Well let me be the first to call you out.

Do you pay your more for the goods and services you get just because you think it would be nice to pay more than you should.......I bet you don't. When you are spending your own money I bet you try and get everything for the best (lowest ) price you can......so don't fault the company's for doing the same tool boy. The company's not there to provide benefits to as many people as possible,.......hello they are there to provide a service the people will pay for and still provide a profit to the stockholders and the BOD............but I bet you are a product of the American public school system.......you know the one that shuns capitalism and promotes communism and social and economic justice you know like Castro, Che and Mao

If you are so tired of your profession being nickle and dimed than maybe you should stop worshiping groups like ALPA that demand company's hire more pilots than is really needed or the other job killing unions that force airlines to hire more cleaning staff, Flight Attendants, mechs ect..... I think you get my point.

All airline pilots did for years leading up to 9-11 was demand for money for less. Pilots like you have elevated our profession to that of a baseball player.......you know well paid guys doing a job they love but demanding more money for doing nothing.......then going on strike when they don't get the max pay for sitting home running the yogurt shop. Then you don't understand when the traveling public has no sympathy for you or your cause........You just don't get it tool boy.......you are the hired help and are so easy to replace.......remember this cry baby.....never be more trouble than you are worth.

So you sit in the cockpit with your thumb up you -$$ watching others work and just keep thinking your better than the ones working hard and remember how great it was while you are standing in the unemployment line.

It's tools like you that give us all a bad name......please give your seat to a pilot that wants to fly and will help make the company a success.

I am really surprised you dont work for the government, they embrace your kind of laziness and elitist thinking.

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Staple Staple[/QUOTE

Wow, I should have posted more often than I did in the previous years. Amazing the smart person you are. You know all about me based on one opinion. Your rant is too silly to reply to, but just to give you the satisfaction and not ruin your day completely, before and after 9-11 I was still paying my dues. Now did I hit a nerve here by getting you fired up and calling me a "tool" ? No worries, I understand. Enjoy .

 

[Black Sheep]

I get any breaks I truly need. In the meantime I value my work ethic and actually think it gives me more energy than it takes from me. Certainly more satisfaction and an opportunity to stretch my legs while being productive and an opportunity to interact with the passengers that I enjoy. Mostly, I get a simple thank you- which is more than enough- but sometimes people get truly inspired-

had an 80yo retired pan am pilot tell me he'd never have to pass out peanuts. I stopped, assured him it was voluntary and got a chance to talk to him for quite a while- at the end, I said if i didn't pass out peanuts I wouldn't have got meet and talk with a PanAm pilot and it was truly a pleasure doing so- you could tell he wanted to tell his story- no less than half a dozen customers shook my hand after the DH and witnessed me turning a grumpy man trying to take me down a notch and leave him feeling special.
I've been bowed to by a 60-something Japanese man. And I've had socal people shun me. (But swa seems to keep getting their money, so...)

I really value those interactions personally and feel like SWA has earned my
best by how they act. If we don't reward them for doing right by us, what does that say about us? What behavior would that be inviting?
Seems your attitude is more reserved for the united, American, usair's of the world.
But it's also not lost that swa does have the money for cleaners they need bc we don't waste it on cleaners we don't - it's also why they have money to keep paying us when all our other peers are still fighting to get theirs back.

Like I said, I'm wired this way anyway and have a hard time staying still- and it's ok if you think different. I do get what you're saying.

Waveflyer,

it's great intentions you have and if you enjoy all theses "extras" more power to you. It's just the dangers of setting certain examples and after a while the companies expecting you to do these things which are more a concern to me. Our profession has taken a great beating through out the last ten years and I just hate to see the direction it is heading.

Perhaps my attitude is a bit like the old AA's and UA's, but let's be honest, if offered a job back in the "golden days" of the majors, would have you refused it, just because these pilots did not clean airplanes or throw bags ?

Thanks for a balanced reply, though. Cheers, BS.

 

[GoodTimes]

Blacksheep,

Times change, right? Good companies find ways to adapt and the rest go away or get replaced. Deregulation changed our profession forever. Long for the 'good ole days' or move forward. I personally think it's a stretch to say my life as a professional pilot is somehow diminished if I grab the occasional stroller or spend 3 minutes cleaning the cabin. The company doesn't "expect" me to do any of those things. I choose to participate in a team environment, foster some comraderie and set a good example now and then.

 

[Dan Roman]

One of our CRM instructors asked "What would you do if your F/O shows up at the airplane five minutes before pushback?" An old Captain shrugged and replied "If he beats me, he beats me."

Seriously, the SWA culture as described here sounds a lot like the Delta of 30 years ago. We had our own "Herb" named Dave Garrett. Yeah, I know, things changed.

That's classic, and a lot of insight in just a few words.

 

[Dan Roman]

and flyvixen, you are probably not even capable of understanding, but people like you contribute so little and want so much. You simply are the polar opposite of pilots in the past who built being an airline pilot into an honorable profession.

 

[flynvixen]

and flyvixen, you are probably not even capable of understanding, but people like you contribute so little and want so much. You simply are the polar opposite of pilots in the past who built being an airline pilot into an honorable profession.

Dan, Dan, Dan, please

You know as well as I do the "pilots of the past" with the help of greedy unions like ALPA wanted only to get paid to sit home and run their yogurt shops. We heard it all the time in the crew vans with the likes of the brain surgeons at United talking about the new contract is "like taking candy from a baby"

we don't know what the Pro's at Delta were saying about their company or contract because they were such "good guys" they were to good to let other crews ride in the same crew van, or for a long time even ride on their jump-seat ???

Pilots of the past help drive this industry into the very place it is today by pretending they were worth way more $$$$$ than what the company's or the market was willing to pay.

In the past pilots did not give a rats a$$ about efficiency in fact they liked the system inefficient so they could bid different equipment all the time and stay in training all year and not have to fly, or work the reserve system so they could get paid to run the yogurt shop and then have to go to training every 90 days to get a landing ????

Ever wonder why there is so many RJ's out there Dan.......airline pilots in large part have priced themselves out of work. Demanding max pay to the last day, demanding contracts that let them sit home and get paid, contracts that force the company's to hire more pilots than are needed to satisfy the greedy demands of ALPA/APA pumping up union membership while making the company less efficient???

and then when the fit throwing pilots don't get what they want, what do we get Dan........the snail pace taxi, the flying with the APU on (sorry dude I have to burn my company) that's right Dan I heard that from a "pro" over at US Air while I was in his jump seat, or flying around with the gear down 100 miles out I saw that one from a US Air pro also while sitting in the jump seat..... WTFO Dan ???? At least the RJ guys work for the money while the rest of the "pros" sit around and bitch while watching others work, thinking they are to good to help out.

So Dan lets get this straight.....I want so much and contribute so little because I help clean the airplane ?? push a wheel chair or get a stroller ??? WTFO Dan, sounds like you are the one that should consider contributing something to your company besides non stop whining about how you are worth so much more.....and blah blah blah

some of us are tired of hearing the non stop bitching from the likes of pilots like you. You run your company into the ground then blame everybody except the pilots for the situation......look in the mirror Dan and try grabbing a stroller or pushing a wheel chair for once and please STFU.

Staple Staple

 

[Dan Roman]

Dan, Dan, Dan, please

You know as well as I do the "pilots of the past" with the help of greedy unions like ALPA wanted only to get paid to sit home and run their yogurt shops. We heard it all the time in the crew vans with the likes of the brain surgeons at United talking about the new contract is "like taking candy from a baby"

we don't know what the Pro's at Delta were saying about their company or contract because they were such "good guys" they were to good to let other crews ride in the same crew van, or for a long time even ride on their jump-seat ???

Pilots of the past help drive this industry into the very place it is today by pretending they were worth way more $$$$$ than what the company's or the market was willing to pay.

In the past pilots did not give a rats a$$ about efficiency in fact they liked the system inefficient so they could bid different equipment all the time and stay in training all year and not have to fly, or work the reserve system so they could get paid to run the yogurt shop and then have to go to training every 90 days to get a landing ????

Ever wonder why there is so many RJ's out there Dan.......airline pilots in large part have priced themselves out of work. Demanding max pay to the last day, demanding contracts that let them sit home and get paid, contracts that force the company's to hire more pilots than are needed to satisfy the greedy demands of ALPA/APA pumping up union membership while making the company less efficient???

and then when the fit throwing pilots don't get what they want, what do we get Dan........the snail pace taxi, the flying with the APU on (sorry dude I have to burn my company) that's right Dan I heard that from a "pro" over at US Air while I was in his jump seat, or flying around with the gear down 100 miles out I saw that one from a US Air pro also while sitting in the jump seat..... WTFO Dan ???? At least the RJ guys work for the money while the rest of the "pros" sit around and bitch while watching others work, thinking they are to good to help out.

So Dan lets get this straight.....I want so much and contribute so little because I help clean the airplane ?? push a wheel chair or get a stroller ??? WTFO Dan, sounds like you are the one that should consider contributing something to your company besides non stop whining about how you are worth so much more.....and blah blah blah

some of us are tired of hearing the non stop bitching from the likes of pilots like you. You run your company into the ground then blame everybody except the pilots for the situation......look in the mirror Dan and try grabbing a stroller or pushing a wheel chair for once and please STFU.

Staple Staple

You cherry pick perceived mistakes and urban legends (I've heard the van stories, but never seen it myself or know anyone that has) like you are Glen Beck. Of course ALPA is not perfect, either is SWAPA. But the good they have done far outways the bad. You are just looking for reasons to throw rocks at them.
You are also incredibly mistaken about "running my company into the ground" or bitching about the company. I'm with Hawaiian, ALPA has worked with the company to get us to were we are now, which is in excellent financial shape and a very positive place to work. I would put my "pro company what's good for Hawaiian is good for me" attitude against any SWA employee. In that regard, I may very well have you beat. I'm not going to sit here and list all they things that I have done going the extra mile as a representative of Hawaiian, but if you knew me you would laugh at anyone characterizing me the way you did.
The bottom line is your perspective of ALPA is a narrow one and you appear all about you with little regard for anyone else.

 

[Dan Roman]

BYW, just to prove you can't judge people by a few internet posts (I know I'm doing it to you). I have seen a few ALPA pilots with the elitist attitude you are referring to, they are not the norm. I also have always respected the SWA crews I have met because they seem to be a very down to earth non pretentious group of pilots. I totally respect your crews "pro company pro passenger" attitude.

 

[waveflyer]

Vixen does not speak for all Swapa pilots- it's a good reminder that to many, our contract is viewed in the same way as those old ALPA contracts. Just as Swapa negotiated getting overfly block pay at 5mins past instead of 12, so that we wouldn't be subsidizing the new fuel conservation profiles- ALPA contracts that many are so critical had rigs and work rules in them so that the pilots wouldn't be subsidizing the hub and spoke system, which we all know has a lot of airport appreciation inherently built in. And as SWA continues to grow into the destination airline for pilots, we have more and more in our ranks that game the system.

I do wonder, however, if GK and Herb have to hear it from other CEOs about how they demean the CEO profession by passing out peanuts and treating their employees humanely and with integrity??

IOW, I don't blame ALPA pilots for much of the angst in the industry. If we have some trust fund baby force a corporate takeover and rob us blind, we might not be the agreeable bunch you see today.

 

[flynvixen]

You cherry pick perceived mistakes and urban legends (I've heard the van stories, but never seen it myself or know anyone that has) like you are Glen Beck. Of course ALPA is not perfect, either is SWAPA. But the good they have done far outways the bad. You are just looking for reasons to throw rocks at them.
You are also incredibly mistaken about "running my company into the ground" or bitching about the company. I'm with Hawaiian, ALPA has worked with the company to get us to were we are now, which is in excellent financial shape and a very positive place to work. I would put my "pro company what's good for Hawaiian is good for me" attitude against any SWA employee. In that regard, I may very well have you beat. I'm not going to sit here and list all they things that I have done going the extra mile as a representative of Hawaiian, but if you knew me you would laugh at anyone characterizing me the way you did.
The bottom line is your perspective of ALPA is a narrow one and you appear all about you with little regard for anyone else.

Dan, ......I characterizing you...... you characterized yourself as the guy that thinks helping out is beneath you. read your own prior posting.

so lets get this straight could we ?? in your earlier post you bad mouthed and ran down the pilots that go the extra mile and help clean, push wheel chairs ect, then when you get called out on it, you now say you do all that, which is it ??

Next topic I have seen the Delta "pros" deny a van ride to a non Delta crew and I was on a van with my crew when a Delta Capt. got on and told us all to get off this bus its a Delta crew bus.....after several choice words were exchanged I got with the hotel staff and what do you think I found out Dan.........anyone, anyone, anyone.........I found out that it was in fact our van not Delta's, what do you think happened then Dan.....anyone anyone, the Delta tools said they would take the next van

. I know its hard to get your arms around the fact that one pilot group could be so arrogant and so elitist ( I guess we are all brothers when it comes to helping each other burn the company house down but not when it comes to sharing a van) but it is a fact despite you not seeing it in person !!

Dan, if you help out great, I do, and have no problem doing so, I don't consider myself royalty just because I sit in the front seat, I started out on the ramp I have been there and done all the grunt work, so I know where those employees are coming from. To the pilots that think helping out is demeaning or beneath them shame on you and I hope when you find yourself in the unemployment line please look in the mirror to see the cause. I am sure the job killing machine ALPA frowns big time on pilots helping out any other employee group please correct me if I am wrong on that one.........ALPA has done far more damage to the industry than good, but you will not hear when you only get industry info from the ALPA rag.

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[tico]

Vixen, please, take a breath. I think maybe in your rapid rise to the top you have forgotten what life used to be like. Where I work, rarely is a ramper, cleaner, caterer, mechanic, gate agent or ticket agent an employee. No more familiar faces or voices. Just the next under-cutting outsourcing company. So who would we help. Step in and lend a hand and now you are hurting those people(with their struggle to be paid more than minimum wage)not helping. 12 years ago it was not that way. We all stepped in and helped but as wages have decreased to 1980's levels and the cost of benefits has risen ahead of inflation there is little incentive to help. The corporation is experiencing unprecedented profitability but that has only driven the outsourcing to new highs. They have managed to shed nearly 1/4 of their employees in that time. All the while they take home top awards for performance. They realized there was far more to gain by focusing on the business of the corporation then the business of the airline and Wall St. rewarded them with stock prices north of 50 dollars a share making all of them quite wealthy.
You are fortunate and lucky ,vixen. Only a small part of that is attributable to anything you have done. I would venture that in the short time that you have actually been in the "game", SWA has been the winning lottery ticket. And because it is a lottery, only very few will ever win it. I tried twice but no longer have the drive or the desire. So, while I still have the same work-ethic and drive away from the corporation, I find it to be of little or no use at the corporation. Enjoy your winnings but be humble to the vast majority of us who have not enjoyed your luck and good fortune