SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[texman]

I think, like I said before, this is GK's show. We will see.

 

[humveedriver]

Nothing in the Process Agreement, Transition Agreement, Merger Documents, Bond-McCaskill, Mohawk-Allegheny, or Collective Bargaining Agreements entitles you to employment at Southwest Airlines.

Ivauir, would you recommend to GK that AT pilots be the seperate "lower" cost arm of SWA. Or would you recommend that we be intergrated into the SWAPA CBA? None of us asked for this. Just trying to figure out what you guys think is the best way to make it work.

 

[madjack]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

Seriously?

 

[Dan Roman]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

In which case SWA would have a lower cost division to expand with using non SWAPA pilots. I think the perspective you are missing is if GK is any kind of businessman (and I think he is), once he bought AT he now consider them SWA pilots also.

 

[funnyman12]

You never never ever dangle the carrot of a lower paid employee group doing the same job for a lot less. Even if it is the best management team. Also that alone reflects the potential of management to start veering to the "dark side". Kinda like a wife married to a murderer convinced that he is the best hubby and would never hurt her. I know I know it is an extreme example. A management team that is willing to have a two class measure that divides the company is a red flag for the future. Remember pilots make up 7800 of the total 43000 employees.....GK has a responsibility to them also. Our 7800 pilots can't play nice so....well the heck with it, even tho the other unionized groups were able to work it out.

 

[GoodTimes]

My guess is that the people running SWA value a merger and view it as necessary. But at any and all costs? I don't think so. Anyone who is convinced of this is wrong. In other words, lets all assume an arbitrated award comes out that is onerous to the SWA pilot group....a hypothetical worst case deal for the SWA folks. Do you really think that GK is willing to flush the entire culture to make the merger happen? I wouldn't underestimate the value that SWA places on the culture and their belief that it all starts with the employees.

 

[AFcitrus]

If we get to DOCC we will all be Southwest employees.

 

[GuppyWN]

After reading the Process Agreement I am ready to get it on! This should all be settled by the end of the year and my future AT bro's will learn on the 5th, 20th, and every workday between that they did the right thing negotiating in good faith for the best position in the industry.

Gup

 

[madjack]

Remember: SWA is a no frills, high frequency LCC. The secret to our success is our customer loyalty. Our customers like our friendly employees. I like our friendly employees. The positive culture at SWA is based on trust between management and labor (unique in the airline industry). If GK is as smart a businessman as we all think he is, he will preserve the SWA culture at all costs. We acquired AAI to eliminate a worthy competitor and gain access to certain markets, thereby laying the ground work for growth. We did not buy AAI to provide their employees a big raise at the expense of our existing employees. If the result of arbitration is negative in the eyes of SWA pilots (relative seniority, pure DOH), GK has options, one of whcih may be to operate AAI as a separate entity and GROW the SWA side. This may be the best result if it preserves the positive relations between labor and management. M/B provides AAI pilots protections but does not guarantee a place on the SWA Master Seniority List. The only guaranteed way to get on the list is to apply for a job (like 6000 just did), get an interview, get hired, get a type rating. You must also pass a probationary period.

 

[Bill Nelson]

If we get to DOCC we will all be Southwest employees.

I must be missing something. It seems to me your leverage will be severely curtailed after DOCC.

AirTran can't operate and make money today without AirTran, making you necessary. Tomorrow AirTran isn't necessary for Southwest to continue to make money. It would appear you are much less necessary after DOCC so the confidence and reliance on DOCC as your savior is perplexing.

Don't overestimate your importance and leverage. TranStar comes to mind again.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

When that doesn't happen... just a thought...as it is out of our hands, will you then threaten us with the decertification of SWAPA?

 

[Ty Webb]

Nothing in the Process Agreement, Transition Agreement, Merger Documents, Bond-McCaskill, Mohawk-Allegheny, or Collective Bargaining Agreements entitles you to employment at Southwest Airlines.

Some of you guys are living in an absolute dream world.
This merger is a "GO", and when you finally wake up and realize it, you might actually have something relevant to contribute to the conversation . . . . until then, you're just fantasizing and living in the past.

 

[Ty Webb]

I must be missing something. It seems to me your leverage will be severely curtailed after DOCC.

AirTran can't operate and make money today without AirTran, making you necessary. Tomorrow AirTran isn't necessary for Southwest to continue to make money. It would appear you are much less necessary after DOCC so the confidence and reliance on DOCC as your savior is perplexing.

Don't overestimate your importance and leverage. TranStar comes to mind again.

Well, we know have "Baghdad Bill" . . . . who is only marginally more entertaining than Baghdad Bob.

It's the "Bill and Bob Show". :laugh:

 

[ATLplt]

We did not buy AAI to provide their employees a big raise at the expense of our existing employees.

"You People" always bring this up as an argument, but I still fail to see how other employees making the same wage as you comes at an expense. The money isn't coming out of your pocket. Don't you get that?

 

[Ty Webb]

Remember: SWA is a no frills, high frequency LCC. The secret to our success is our customer loyalty. Our customers like our friendly employees. I like our friendly employees. The positive culture at SWA is based on trust between management and labor (unique in the airline industry). If GK is as smart a businessman as we all think he is, he will preserve the SWA culture at all costs. We acquired AAI to eliminate a worthy competitor and gain access to certain markets, thereby laying the ground work for growth. We did not buy AAI to provide their employees a big raise at the expense of our existing employees. If the result of arbitration is negative in the eyes of SWA pilots (relative seniority, pure DOH), GK has options, one of whcih may be to operate AAI as a separate entity and GROW the SWA side. This may be the best result if it preserves the positive relations between labor and management. M/B provides AAI pilots protections but does not guarantee a place on the SWA Master Seniority List. The only guaranteed way to get on the list is to apply for a job (like 6000 just did), get an interview, get hired, get a type rating. You must also pass a probationary period.

Read the Process Agreement. If it goes to Arbitration, it will have an implementation date, set by the Arbitrator. This was agreed to by SWA management, as well as SWAPA, ALPA, and AAI.

You sound like a spoiled kid who doesn;t want to share his toys, and threatens to throw a tantrum (destroy the culture) if he doesn't get his way. Grow up.

 

[humveedriver]

After reading the Process Agreement I am ready to get it on! This should all be settled by the end of the year and my future AT bro's will learn on the 5th, 20th, and every workday between that they did the right thing negotiating in good faith for the best position in the industry.

Gup

Thanks Gup! I have alot of faith in both negotiating teams. There are going to be pilots on both sides who are never going to be happy with the merger (and probably many other things in life), and I realize that there is nothing I can say to convince them otherwise.

 

[frqntflyr]

Section 2.d is null and void if an amicable agreement is NOT reached. That said, I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[Lonestar]

In which case SWA would have a lower cost division to expand with using non SWAPA pilots.

Nice try, but our Side Letter 6 (the -800s) and Side Letter 8 (our Transition Agreement) take care of that.

 

[roughneck]

Originally Posted by Dan Roman
In which case SWA would have a lower cost division to expand with using non SWAPA pilots

Lonestar is correct. AirTran is restricted by serial number on the current airframes. As leases die or planes go out of service for any reason AirTran shrinks with no provisions to replace the aircraft. AirTran will not be growing.

 

[madjack]

Ty,

GK must combine 51% of operations for M/B to apply.

 

[Lonestar]

I just listened to our NC's SwapTalk about the Process Agreement. Lots of good info. Interestingly, several references were made about AirTran pilots on the call? I'm curious how they got on. I'm even more curious how well-received the message was.

 

[GoodTimes]

ATL,
It's not the money that's the player, it's the contract as a whole. The SWA pilot group has ownership over that. It's good and who can blame 'em for being a little proprietary over a hard fought and well-earned contract?

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

ATL, if you really believe that SWA pilots have nothing to do with the contract that you will be getting, you really do have a problem. I think it is time for everyone to back away from the keyboard and let our teams do their jobs! After hearing SWAPTALK yesterday, I have the utmost confidence in my team!

 

[dicko]

Ty,

GK must combine 51% of operations for M/B to apply.

Quick note; It's actually "50% or more of the stock of another carrier in a transaction".

Top of page 2 in the 'evil process agreement'. It's under the page that says SWA will acquire all the stock of AirTran

 

[Bill Nelson]

Quick note; It's actually "50% or more of the stock of another carrier in a transaction".

Top of page 2 in the 'evil process agreement'. It's under the page that says SWA will acquire all the stock of AirTran

It isn't the percentage of stock that is at question it is the "results in an operational merger" part that you should be wondering about.

 

[Kharma Police]

Ty,

GK must combine 51% of operations for M/B to apply.

Very sad, still hoping against hope that this deal will fall through much to your own detriment. You guys will probably still be fighting a battle long after the lists are merged. Kinda like those Japanese soldiers who were still fighting the war into the 1970s.

 

[ivauir]

Ivauir, would you recommend to GK that AT pilots be the seperate "lower" cost arm of SWA. Or would you recommend that we be intergrated into the SWAPA CBA? None of us asked for this. Just trying to figure out what you guys think is the best way to make it work.

I recommend that we negotiate a fair and equitable list as soon as possible. Until and unless we achieve that everyone has exposure to risk.

 

[madjack]

KP,

GK cannot be forced to merge operations...he may elect to not do so if the results of SLI arbitration will cause erosion of culture at SWA. It is out of our hands...peace out.

 

[redflyer65]

Some of you guys are living in an absolute dream world.
This merger is a "GO", and when you finally wake up and realize it, you might actually have something relevant to contribute to the conversation . . . . until then, you're just fantasizing and living in the past.

Ty,

This is no dream world, but it is Gary Kelly's show, not yours and not mine.

If he gets a bad list or bad outcome, he has options. And that's not meant as a threat, but he will have option B, C, and maybe even D. This is how the Dallas GO works everyday. They have plan after plan for possible scenerios. He won't let this ruin Southwest, plain and simple.

I'm hoping for a negoitated list, but I'm absolutely not afraid of arbitration. The list of gains on the AAI side of the list are off the map.