SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[Secret Squirrel]

How about the furlough guys that bypassed till 2010? Guys on LOA? Military guys that took the job then went right into Mil leave without actully working the line? Long term Medical? Lots of guys came back to class in the last couple classes to get on the final list. Including managment folks who have not flown the line in years if ever. Good luck to the negotiators.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty,

Talking to all SWA/AT guy's. The ISL will not be binding till SOC and JCBA. But you guys do have a fragmentation clause right? Meaning you go where airplanes go?

I believe you are correct in that regards. I don't think it is likely, and even less likely now, given the concerns with the -300's, but yes, still possible.

The last thing a SWA pilot, especially an FO, should hope for would be a fragmentation . . . if things are bad enough to be selling aircraft that were making money for AirTran . . . the airline would be shrinking, not growing. Not good for anyone.

 

[cappydd]

They should have been on the list even if furloughed, medical, LOA, or military leave? Its just now a question of where they wind up on the final list. But as I understand it, anyone hired after Sept. 27th will be on bottom??

 

[texman]

I believe you are correct in that regards. I don't think it was ever likely, and even less likely now, given the concerns with the -300's, but yes, still possible.

The last thing a SWA pilot, especially an FO, should hope for would be a fragmentation . . . if things are bad enough to be selling aircraft that were making money for AirTran . . . the airline would be shrinking, not growing. Not good for anyone.

No matter what we will grow. Sounds like GK is ready to rock. 300's hell don't know. We could replace them with 1900's LOL! Well hope to have a overall Net growth. Worked to hard the past 16 years to get to SouthWest, just to be at a shrinking airline.

 

[Ty Webb]

No matter what we will grow. Sounds like GK is ready to rock. 300's hell don't know. We could replace them with 1900's LOL! Well hope to have a overall Net growth. Worked to hard the past 16 years to get to SouthWest, just to be at a shrinking airline.

Amen, brutha! They (SWA mgmnt) are combining two networks, and I think the synergies they find and build on will create a lot of growth.

 

[texman]

They should have been on the list even if furloughed, medical, LOA, or military leave? Its just now a question of where they wind up on the final list. But as I understand it, anyone hired after Sept. 27th will be on bottom??

I agree. Just wondering if a arbitrator will factor in no furloughs for 40 years at SWA. Also use this as a career expectation point. Or are we going to be treated just like every airline, no job is secure.

Gen in 3,2,1.

 

[Flying the Line]

Here is the DMN blog story./
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2011/04/southwest-airtran-pilot-unions.html

 

[roughneck]

I had to take a break from the nonstop bickering but after listening to todays Swaptalk I thought I would get out my popcorn and watch the show. This should get good.

 

[carl p]

Once AT began hiring again there were no "Involuntary Furloughs" left. That is the distinction with past precedent, the Involuntary Furloughs (people who could not hold a job) have gotten hosed in the past because their seniority did not bring a job to the table. Voluntary Furloughs, Medical, or Military leave have historically been slotted with wherever their peers are on the list regardless if someone took the first recall or bypassed. On September 27 2010, AT had nobody on Involuntary Furlough. We had pilots whose seniority could hold a position who utilized their contractual right to bypass recall. The logic that you have furloughed pilots while hiring 100+ is silly.

Cheers.

 

[ivauir]

Have you read Section VI of the Process Agreement, signed by SWA and SWAPA, which states, in part, that “Utilizing the foregoing procedures, the Parties will implement an orderly combination of the
Southwest Pilots and AirTran Pilots under a single collective bargaining agreement and
representation by a single collective bargaining representative within a single transportation
system under the RLA.” ?

Nothing in the Process Agreement, Transition Agreement, Merger Documents, Bond-McCaskill, Mohawk-Allegheny, or Collective Bargaining Agreements entitles you to employment at Southwest Airlines.

 

[texman]

I think, like I said before, this is GK's show. We will see.

 

[humveedriver]

Nothing in the Process Agreement, Transition Agreement, Merger Documents, Bond-McCaskill, Mohawk-Allegheny, or Collective Bargaining Agreements entitles you to employment at Southwest Airlines.

Ivauir, would you recommend to GK that AT pilots be the seperate "lower" cost arm of SWA. Or would you recommend that we be intergrated into the SWAPA CBA? None of us asked for this. Just trying to figure out what you guys think is the best way to make it work.

 

[madjack]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

Seriously?

 

[Dan Roman]

If the outcome of arbitration is negative to SWA pilots, then GK may elect to not merge the list to avoid acrimony in the ranks...just a thought...it is out of our hands...

In which case SWA would have a lower cost division to expand with using non SWAPA pilots. I think the perspective you are missing is if GK is any kind of businessman (and I think he is), once he bought AT he now consider them SWA pilots also.

 

[funnyman12]

You never never ever dangle the carrot of a lower paid employee group doing the same job for a lot less. Even if it is the best management team. Also that alone reflects the potential of management to start veering to the "dark side". Kinda like a wife married to a murderer convinced that he is the best hubby and would never hurt her. I know I know it is an extreme example. A management team that is willing to have a two class measure that divides the company is a red flag for the future. Remember pilots make up 7800 of the total 43000 employees.....GK has a responsibility to them also. Our 7800 pilots can't play nice so....well the heck with it, even tho the other unionized groups were able to work it out.

 

[GoodTimes]

My guess is that the people running SWA value a merger and view it as necessary. But at any and all costs? I don't think so. Anyone who is convinced of this is wrong. In other words, lets all assume an arbitrated award comes out that is onerous to the SWA pilot group....a hypothetical worst case deal for the SWA folks. Do you really think that GK is willing to flush the entire culture to make the merger happen? I wouldn't underestimate the value that SWA places on the culture and their belief that it all starts with the employees.

 

[AFcitrus]

If we get to DOCC we will all be Southwest employees.

 

[GuppyWN]

After reading the Process Agreement I am ready to get it on! This should all be settled by the end of the year and my future AT bro's will learn on the 5th, 20th, and every workday between that they did the right thing negotiating in good faith for the best position in the industry.

Gup

 

[madjack]

Remember: SWA is a no frills, high frequency LCC. The secret to our success is our customer loyalty. Our customers like our friendly employees. I like our friendly employees. The positive culture at SWA is based on trust between management and labor (unique in the airline industry). If GK is as smart a businessman as we all think he is, he will preserve the SWA culture at all costs. We acquired AAI to eliminate a worthy competitor and gain access to certain markets, thereby laying the ground work for growth. We did not buy AAI to provide their employees a big raise at the expense of our existing employees. If the result of arbitration is negative in the eyes of SWA pilots (relative seniority, pure DOH), GK has options, one of whcih may be to operate AAI as a separate entity and GROW the SWA side. This may be the best result if it preserves the positive relations between labor and management. M/B provides AAI pilots protections but does not guarantee a place on the SWA Master Seniority List. The only guaranteed way to get on the list is to apply for a job (like 6000 just did), get an interview, get hired, get a type rating. You must also pass a probationary period.