SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[S3sundowner]

I think the agreement also mentions negotiating pay rates for the 717; could be a long fence. Let's hope everyone plays fair and this thing reflects what both carriers bring to the merge.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

would you want the pay commensurate with your 500's or would like you like a lower payscale for the 717 putting pressure on WN mgmt to push flying to the cheaper 717 and remove the 500's?

 

[Bill Nelson]

What is the implementation schedule of the ISL if it isn't a negotiated list?

 

[DonVerita]

The feeling at SWA is nobody wants their own seniority list watered down by individuals like yourself who couldn't get hired here (and there are a lot of you) or by an airline with such low pay and benefits.

As usual, you haven't bothered to read our new contract. "Low pay and benefits"? Try looking it up on www.airlinepilotcentral.com before you shoot your mouth off.

On like equipment, AirTran is paid higher than United, Continental, America West, US Airways, and the same (give or take a couple $)as American, Delta and JetBlue.

Where do you get your data from...Fox News? Honestly, do you bother to fact check anything you write?

 

[BlueBlood]

I imagine SW management imagines this language will form a solid foundation for a great culture.

Ask SWA management how they felt about culture when it came to the Muse/Transtar pilots. There is one culture that will be embraced and assimilated to - Southwest's. If you don't like it, it sure is a long career to be unhappy because you are better off.:erm:

It appears that SWAPA or SWA can do nothing to make the AAI guys feel better. I wouldn't play chicken with them though. Just a little patience and cooperation may result in the biggest upswing in pilot career history. Then again, no cooperation and constant badgering and attitude may result in the biggest let down that even they couldn't imagine.

Raises, better futures, more days off, better treatment and the list goes on. Only one reason for it to go differently - the behavior of the AAI guys' MEC that infects the rest of the honest and hard working pilots of AirTran.

 

[400ADude]

As usual, you haven't bothered to read our new contract. "Low pay and benefits"? Try looking it up on www.airlinepilotcentral.com before you shoot your mouth off.

On like equipment, AirTran is paid higher than United, Continental, America West, US Airways, and the same (give or take a couple $)as American, Delta and JetBlue.

Where do you get your data from...Fox News? Honestly, do you bother to fact check anything you write?

You're paid lower than all of them except maybe Us Airways East. You are a B scale in comparison to SWA and you know it.

 

[SWA/FO]

Just a little patience and cooperation may result in the biggest upswing in pilot career history. Then again, no cooperation and constant badgering and attitude may result in the biggest let down that even they couldn't imagine.

Raises, better futures, more days off, better treatment and the list goes on. Only one reason for it to go differently - the behavior of the AAI guys' MEC that infects the rest of the honest and hard working pilots of AirTran.

Yes, couldn't say it any better...

 

[RLAblows]

It appears that SWAPA or SWA can do nothing to make the AAI guys feel better. I wouldn't play chicken with them though. Just a little patience and cooperation may result in the biggest upswing in pilot career history. Then again, no cooperation and constant badgering and attitude may result in the biggest let down that even they couldn't imagine.

Raises, better futures, more days off, better treatment and the list goes on. Only one reason for it to go differently - the behavior of the AAI guys' MEC that infects the rest of the honest and hard working pilots of AirTran.

You guys are just spring loaded to the negativity. Where do you see anybody from AT in this thread so far not sounding like they are on board with the SWA culture? Everyone is badgering the AT guys on this board. What do you mean, "SWAPA or SWA can do nothing to make the AAI guys feel better? Please give an example I'm trying to see where you are coming from.

 

[funnyman12]

Wow....some of you guys take my posts entirely out of context. I look forward to working with you guys and definately match and compliment your culture. I just can't understand why some guys on here respond so angrily at me. BTW im awesome to work with and SW is going to be extremely happy to have me and many of my fellow pilots on the same team.

 

[funnyman12]

At Airtran we piss excellence and bleed awesome! Your welcome!

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Only one reason for it to go differently - the behavior of the AAI guys' MEC that infects the rest of the honest and hard working pilots of AirTran.

And what "behavior" would that be?

Would that be our "senior MEC members" that have "behavior" issues?

 

[RLAblows]

Wow....some of you guys take my posts entirely out of context. I look forward to working with you guys and definately match and compliment your culture. I just can't understand why some guys on here respond so angrily at me. BTW im awesome to work with and SW is going to be extremely happy to have me and many of my fellow pilots on the same team.

That's why I say they are spring loaded to negativity. They completely took your post out of context.

 

[RLAblows]

No doom and gloom just reality.

The feeling at SWA is nobody wants their own seniority list watered down by individuals like yourself who couldn't get hired here (and there are a lot of you) or by an airline with such low pay and benefits. You'd feel the same way too, seriously you would and you know it. When and if you do come over here, it will be viewed as this, no matter what they do with renumbering the seniority list.

That being said there are a lot of ex Mesa people on the SWA seniority list. I don't remember Mesa having high pay and benefits. Just say it, "we got hired not acquired."

 

[BlueBlood]

not a SWA dude, only wishing

not spring loaded for anything....just making an bystander's observation

seriously, good luck to all

 

[GuppyWN]

We don't need luck.

Gup

 

[clr4theapch]

This is a union topic that should be posted under the union section of FI. PLease us ALL of Flight Info for your aviation needs.. so all members can locate information they are looking for, now and in the future searches..

mod clr4

 

[texman]

Wow....some of you guys take my posts entirely out of context. I look forward to working with you guys and definately match and compliment your culture. I just can't understand why some guys on here respond so angrily at me. BTW im awesome to work with and SW is going to be extremely happy to have me and many of my fellow pilots on the same team.

I have pride like you. Your post is one of good. I am in the same boat. Young and worried. A lot to lose.

I have read your posts, your positive attitude will go a long way.

good luck to us all.

 

[Lear70]

What is the implementation schedule of the ISL if it isn't a negotiated list?

Short answer: the arbitrators will tell us. It's required to be in their decision.

Long answer:

30 days from right now, both parties will independently submit a list of 7 "neutrals". No later than 15 days from the date the lists are in, the parties will do the typical "strike" and "counter-strike" elimination of the neutrals until 3 are left.

Additionally, within 30 days from right now, the Seniority Lists will be certified as they existed on 9/26/2010. Immediately after the lists are certified, negotiations begin for 90 days. At the end of 90 days if no agreement is reached, a mediator is brought in for 15 sessions over 15 days to be concluded by 09/30/2011. On 10/01/2011 (or later if the 15 sessions take longer), if there is no SLI, arbitration begins and the arbitrators will be given a copy of the process agreement that details the desire to have an SLI to be done by New Year's. There will be 12 days of arbitration, with an extension of 3 more if required, but no more.

The Process Agreement lists that ANY negotiated, mediated, or arbitrated SLI will also have an implementation schedule attached to it and that it SHALL be accepted by Southwest Management as well as the pilot groups.

The Agreement also recognizes that the award (negotiated, mediated, or arbitrated) will be REQUIRED to have an EFFECTIVE DATE OF IMPLEMENTATION of the ISL. This will preclude an SLI being reached then it being kept in limbo by one party.

Sec 5.G: “The Final Award shall be final and binding on the Parties to this Agreement, on their Successors and Assigns, and on the pilots employed by the Company and its affiliates. The Final Award shall include the date on which the Integrated Master Seniority List will become affective, which will be either a date agreed upon by the parties, or, if they do not agree, a date agreed by the Panel (arbitrators)."

Sec 6.A: “Utilizing the foregoing procedures, the Parties will implement an orderly combination of the Southwest Pilots and AirTran Pilots under a single collective bargaining agreement and representation by a single collective bargaining representative within a single transportation system under the RLA.”

Sec 6.B: Management will help with the filing of the Single Carrier Status with the NMB per the RLA. Once Single Carrier is recognized, the pilots of AirTran become represented by and fall under the SWAPA CBA.

Southwest pay, if an ISL is reached by negotiations or mediation and ratified, happens on a schedule negotiated by AAI ALPA, SWAPA, and SWA management. Benefits will also be negotiated on this timetable.

If an ISL is not reached by negotiations/mediation and has to be arbitrated, AAI pilots don't get Southwest pay and benefits until the SLI is implemented, SOC is recognized by the FAA, *AND* Single Carrier Status is recognized by the NMB, at which time all the pay and benefits happen all at once. This could be a delay of up to 6 months from what I'm told over a negotiated implementation.

That's all black and white from the Process Agreement. The document was crafted with the main intent to make it happen quickly and to keep one party from stalling and/or backing out of the SLI process. The only way it can be canceled or even delayed more than 6 months or so at this point is if the entire merger is called off.

 

[PCL_128]

......

 

[ivauir]

Short answer: the arbitrators will tell us. It's required to be in their decision.
...

Lear,

Both your short and long answers are incomplete.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Lear,

Both your short and long answers are incomplete.

Fill us in.

 

[scoreboardII]

This is a union topic that should be posted under the union section of FI. Please us ALL of Flight Info for your aviation needs.. so all members can locate information they are looking for, now and in the future searches..

mod clr4

Really? Think about about this please and kindly return the discussion between two major carriers to the majors board. Put this under union activity is not reasonable, while the discussion is about what the unions are doing, the root of the story is that it is about what is happening between two majors.

Your attempt to shuffle these topics only confuses.

If this was a generic topic of unions as in "how do two majors unite", then sure, place it under union. But this is specifically about two majors, hence, majors board.

If you don't return this to majors then your rationale would be that any topic in the majors board gets shuffled to some other forum, example, how would you or your major company deal with dispatchers who fail to do their job? Would you then move this from majors to dispatcher? I say no, but your rationale says yes.

Future searches? When I go looking in the future for AT/SWA info, I'll search majors, not union.

 

[redflyer65]

This is a union topic that should be posted under the union section of FI. PLease us ALL of Flight Info for your aviation needs.. so all members can locate information they are looking for, now and in the future searches..

mod clr4

Really? Wow.

All I can say is WOW. Can you not leave well enough alone?

 

[SWA/FO]

Watch out he might BAN you for a month like he did me - with no trial

 

[Kharma Police]

This is a union topic that should be posted under the union section of FI. PLease us ALL of Flight Info for your aviation needs.. so all members can locate information they are looking for, now and in the future searches..

mod clr4

This is borderline incoherent.

 

[GuppyWN]

Moving the thread is a good way to stifle the discussion.

Well played.

Gup

 

[zippy32]

Shouldn't the thread about the United MEC problems also get moved to the union board? Weird.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

Both your short and long answers are incomplete.

No, they're not.

The short answer is readily apparent right out of the text of the Process Agreement which I quoted in the long answer below it. I don't know what SWAPA is telling you, but I have the long document open here, and the idea that people are referring to that the airlines actually have to be operationally merged in order for an arbitrated SLI to be enacted is just plain false (Par 5.G).

Any dispute that one party has to the SLI must be brought within 60 days of the final ruling and cannot change the initial SLI arbitration award (Par 5.I).

Once the final arbitration ruling is handed down, the FAA recognizes SOC, and the NMB recognizes single carrier status, all AirTran pilots become represented by SWAPA (Par 6.B).

Please, if you have a different paragraph to reference with that allegation, post it here, I'd love to read it, but I've read through the long document 3 times now and can't find anything that allows for a different implementation date based on any other SPECIFIC EVENT.

Again, this doesn't give any side an "advantage", it just details that this is GOING to happen, it's going to happen rather quickly, and it takes all the stress off us average line pilots to where we're going to relax, sit back, and let the Merger Committees do their job to find a fair and equitable agreement or get as close as they can and let the 3-panel arbitration team finish doing that for us.

People can continue to talk Doom and Gloom, but no one is taking the flame bait, that's all. Still look forward to buying you guys a frosty beverage when it's all said and done. :beer:

 

[Max Powers]

Lear,

Both your short and long answers are incomplete.

How can it be more clear than that???!!!

 

[ivauir]

No, they're not.

Yes they are. You left off the end of 5g. The plain facts are that absent a negotiated agreement there are no guarantees.

Southwest Airlines press release:

http://swamedia.com/releases/e92ed2d6-ca48-da7f-caa0-6b004da76053

Thu, Apr 14, 2011 - DALLAS -
Earlier today, the respective Unions representing Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) and AirTran Airways Pilots, as well as both Companies signed a Four-Party Process Agreement that provides for the two pilot groups to begin their seniority integration discussions prior to legal closing of the AirTran acquisition. It also outlines provisions of an implementation schedule in the event an agreement is reached on an integrated seniority list (ISL). Southwest anticipates closing on its acquisition of AirTran Airways in second quarter of 2011.
"This is yet another important step in the overall process of bringing these two great carriers together," said Mike Van de Ven, Southwest Airlines Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer. "I applaud both sides for signing this important agreement that lays the groundwork for bringing together these two hard working Pilot groups."
The Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association (SWAPA) and the Air Line Pilots' Association (ALPA) can now begin the work of integrating seniority lists in accordance with the McCaskill-Bond Act. This new Four-Party Process Agreement also creates a timeline for SWAPA and ALPA to reach an ISL agreement. If an agreement is not reached during this timeframe, the matter will be sent to arbitration and a new implementation process will have to be negotiated.

No more stalling. It is time to play ball fellas.