SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[greenpilot]

DOH is a non-starter for me....... and I'm not junior.

Gup

I agree 100%

 

[Music]

I didn't structure it this way, but it's setup that way for a reason. If you don't believe so, the you have your head in the sand. Gary set this up..not the SWAPA pilots.

You don't get it do you. Let me help you then. The LCC setup is what it is, I'm not debating what it may or may not be used for. Threatening us by continually pointing out 'doomsday' scenarios is not making any of us scared, it's pi$$ing us off. Yes, we're already apprehensive because we don't know what's going to happen but threatening us only makes my expectations grow because I'm getting pi$$ed off. That's why your statements are idiotic.

Waste of time anyway.

 

[400ADude]

Get ugly? How exactly do you expect it to get ugly for anyone on the Southwest side of the fence?

As an impartial observer, it's astounding to see how clueless some of you trannies are regarding the leverage you are lacking.

It is mathmatically, statistically, and logically impossible for it to get ugly for Southwest. Won't and can't happen. The management at Southwest isn't going to poison their company for your sake. You guys will be twisting in the wind wondering how you pissed away the golden lottery ticket.

Beg for a staple.

No way Bob their contract says 18 months they have to be integrated and oh yeah Mike Vanden said he would honor it too.:laugh::laugh:

My response:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[carl p]

We should let the SWA guys pick 3 of us from the board, we pick 3 of them and hammer this out over some beers in a weekend.

FWIW, I think our MC is a sharp group and gives us a chance to get it done outside of arbitration.

 

[waveflyer]

My prediction: start with DOH, then ratio down to leave 400-600 AT FOs at the bottom- no bump, no flush and some stock to make it all go down smooth. Then some serious growth to help us all have acquisition amnesia and become a new great swa doing things and growing in ways we never have.

So,you think it's fair to staple 1/2-3/4 of the AirTran FO's below all the swa FO's hired after September?[/QUOTE]

Yes, I do. More than fair. AND, I hold a moderate position and have been criticized by my fellow peers for thinking such generous SLI is fair.

But as the poster said below- if we can't close the gap- there is a process, of which I am not involved. It'll be how it'll be. But w/ 6 airlines in my 18 years- including a few of the most coveted jobs in history- my life improved over all of them in day 1 at SWA- there is a reason so many thousands have their app in to come to the bottom of all of us. So don't misconstrue my SLI opinion as being either meaningful or arrogant- respect is high- but you better RESPECT the position you are in to join SWAPA. It looks extremely bad on you if you are not grateful for the opportunity that fell onto you- and in no way will your life ever be worse off by joining this group anywhere on the list. Just don't even say it or let yourself think it. The only people who would tell you that are those who haven't worked here.

It IS ALL OUR PRIVELEGE TO WORK FOR HERB AND COLLEEN AND GARY'S AIRLINE. Make your SLI argument, and more power to it. But don't forget that.
And if push comes to shove- get on the list. I honestly don't know anything- but that's the feeling I have. Get on the list, even if it's tough pill for you personally- and DECIDE to be happy. It's premature advice, bc right now you should be making your case as well as you can- but if it comes down in a way you don't like- as a man who has friends there: Get on the list.

 

[Bob Dylan]

No way Bob their contract says 18 months they have to be integrated and oh yeah Mike Vanden said he would honor it too.:laugh::laugh:

My response:
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Um, right. Yeah, and also why do so many trannies think that the folks running Southwest Airlines will ever let this go to arbitration? Trannies think a wildly profitable and arguably the most successful airline in history with regards to managing their human resources is going to let a bunch of outsiders drop a stinky duece in their legendary and painstakingly cultivated punchbowl?

Never will happen. Guadaloupe Holdings will be closed down first.

My advice, beg for a staple and never look back except to count your freakin lucky stars!

 

[shootr]

So,you think it's fair to staple 1/2-3/4 of the AirTran FO's below all the swa FO's hired after September?

Yes. It may not go that far but yes, fair.

 

[Lear70]

My prediction: start with DOH, then ratio down to leave 400-600 AT FOs at the bottom- no bump, no flush and some stock to make it all go down smooth. Then some serious growth to help us all have acquisition amnesia and become a new great swa doing things and growing in ways we never have.

So,you think it's fair to staple 1/2-3/4 of the AirTran FO's below all the swa FO's hired after September?

Historically-speaking, that kind of thing has never happened in recent history during a seniority integration with a non-bankrupt carrier. Everyone not on property on the date of constructive notice will end up blended in at the bottom. Just the way things like this go...

It wouldn't surprise me if something like this is what SWAPA *OPENED* with in negotiations last month, but I would be highly surprised if they went into arbitration with that as their opener - you'd polarize all 3 arbitrators, 2 of which have established, recent arbitration history, one of them with the DAL/NWA arbitration (where up to 25% money gains by one group were largely ignored in the final solution) and one with RAH/F9 where the only pilots who got stapled were pilots NOT ACTIVELY FLYING (Midwest folks), even with the bankrupt Frontier, their F/O's weren't wholesale stapled like that. It's not smart to pi$$ off the arbitrator, and I doubt SWAPA would go in asking for that (see Nicolau for a prime example of what happens when you pi$$ off the arbitrator).

Not trying to argue, just stating that if you're expecting a NEGOTIATED settlement to go like you stated above (where pilots hired AFTER the announcement get placed senior to pilots on property at AAI 4-5 years), you're going to be highly disappointed. Our Merger Committee will never go for it, therefore it will never see vote at either group and it'll end up in arbitration.

Again, you may choose to believe that some type of doomsday scenario exists if it doesn't go your way, but our pilots simply don't. I thought we had moved past the threats and intimidation tactics that obviously aren't working...

 

[waveflyer]

Wait wait wait. Didn't see that. Everyone after the snapshot is below everyone. DOH would still make CJ and 300 or so pilots above him junior to every AT pilot-

All new hires since the snapshot are a cushion for everyone. I don't see how they could not.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Historically-speaking, that kind of thing has never happened in recent history during a seniority integration with a non-bankrupt carrier. Everyone not on property on the date of constructive notice will end up blended in at the bottom. Just the way things like this go...

It wouldn't surprise me if something like this is what SWAPA *OPENED* with in negotiations last month, but I would be highly surprised if they went into arbitration with that as their opener - you'd polarize all 3 arbitrators, 2 of which have established, recent arbitration history, one of them with the DAL/NWA arbitration (where up to 25% money gains by one group were largely ignored in the final solution) and one with RAH/F9 where the only pilots who got stapled were pilots NOT ACTIVELY FLYING (Midwest folks), even with the bankrupt Frontier, their F/O's weren't wholesale stapled like that. It's not smart to pi$$ off the arbitrator, and I doubt SWAPA would go in asking for that (see Nicolau for a prime example of what happens when you pi$$ off the arbitrator).

Not trying to argue, just stating that if you're expecting a NEGOTIATED settlement to go like you stated above (where pilots hired AFTER the announcement get placed senior to pilots on property at AAI 4-5 years), you're going to be highly disappointed. Our Merger Committee will never go for it, therefore it will never see vote at either group and it'll end up in arbitration.

Again, you may choose to believe that some type of doomsday scenario exists if it doesn't go your way, but our pilots simply don't. I thought we had moved past the threats and intimidation tactics that obviously aren't working...

That's a lot of chutzpah coming from a guy who was literally begging to be stapled to Southwest a few short months before they bought you.

 

[greenpilot]

Don't worry. It will not go doh. Even if it did you would have to take into account airtrans pilots who were furloughed. It would be based on longevity. Just like the NWA/republic merger. As it is right now AirTran has pilots on the list who are senior to people they were hired after. This is due to the merger between value jet and airways.

NWA tried for doh with delta. The same arbitrator we have wouldn't go for it.

 

[SWA/FO]

And if push comes to shove- get on the list. I honestly don't know anything- but that's the feeling I have. Get on the list, even if it's tough pill for you personally- and DECIDE to be happy. It's premature advice, bc right now you should be making your case as well as you can- but if it comes down in a way you don't like- as a man who has friends there: Get on the list.

Exactly, been telling my tranny for months.

 

[Kharma Police]

[/QUOTE]
Yes, I do. More than fair. AND, I hold a moderate position and have been criticized by my fellow peers for thinking such generous SLI is fair.

But as the poster said below- if we can't close the gap- there is a process, of which I am not involved. It'll be how it'll be. But w/ 6 airlines in my 18 years- including a few of the most coveted jobs in history- my life improved over all of them in day 1 at SWA- there is a reason so many thousands have their app in to come to the bottom of all of us. So don't misconstrue my SLI opinion as being either meaningful or arrogant- respect is high- but you better RESPECT the position you are in to join SWAPA. It looks extremely bad on you if you are not grateful for the opportunity that fell onto you- and in no way will your life ever be worse off by joining this group anywhere on the list. Just don't even say it or let yourself think it. The only people who would tell you that are those who haven't worked here.

It IS ALL OUR PRIVELEGE TO WORK FOR HERB AND COLLEEN AND GARY'S AIRLINE. Make your SLI argument, and more power to it. But don't forget that.
And if push comes to shove- get on the list. I honestly don't know anything- but that's the feeling I have. Get on the list, even if it's tough pill for you personally- and DECIDE to be happy. It's premature advice, bc right now you should be making your case as well as you can- but if it comes down in a way you don't like- as a man who has friends there: Get on the list.[/QUOTE]

You will get one vote and so will I, then 3 people will decide our fate. You and others still continue with your threats and chest thumping which to me is kind of sad and pathetic. All the AirTran pilots are excited about the future, you and your fellow, "there's nothing in this for me" crowd will be the problem, not us.

 

[SWA/FO]

You would feel the same way - if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

[Kharma Police]

You would feel the same way - if the shoe was on the other foot.

I tend to not worry about things I have no control over (like this SLI). I know as a generalization, pilots are control freaks but some you guys need to just let it go and let the process play itself out.