SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[Bob Dylan]

Then you haven't been around very long.



Bobby, I hope you are a better pilot than you are a propagandist. :laugh:

You just really need to start being rational. You just hit the lottery big time - we know it, you know it and everyone else knows it too. Don't risk pissing this opportunity away, because I'd bet that all of SWA from the BOD to the CEO on down will not jeopardize their culture for the sake of your greed. They will figure out a way to never include you in the SLI. They all win and you lose.

As you said, place your bets.

 

[SWA/FO]

I don't think Ty is going to like being at Southwest. Some people just are never happy and I think this is the case here.

We have 7000 apps onfile of people that want to be here. People that would die to be in the trannies situation. "lucky" would be the word I would use.

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh, they were joking? Riiiiight...

I don't know if they were or weren't . . . . . and it doesn't matter.

The only persons qualified to speak for AirTran pilots are ATN71 Officers and Executives . . . .

This has already been beaten to death, but three guys on an anonymous message board doesn't mean squat.

Just like Hose, Baghdad Bob and SWA/FOol don't mean squat. :laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't think Ty is going to like being at Southwest. Some people just are never happy and I think this is the case here.

We have 7000 apps onfile of people that want to be here. People that would die to be in the trannies situation. "lucky" would be the word I would use.

Oh, Lord. . . . . It's pretty obvious why you're not part of the interview process. . . . . . :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

Why don't you change your tune a bit Ty? I mean look at Lear70... I actually like reading his posts. I can tell he wants to be here. I'm not sure we have enough room here for your ego.

 

[humveedriver]

I don't think Ty is going to like being at Southwest. Some people just are never happy and I think this is the case here.

We have 7000 apps onfile of people that want to be here. People that would die to be in the trannies situation. "lucky" would be the word I would use.

I think we are lucky if we get a fair shake with the SLI. I don't think being stapled is lucky. That's the only downside I see being bought by a company with a strong balance sheet and senior pilot group. The whole we are better than you thing was bound to be unavoidable. I accept that it is not possible for a SWA pilot to see this any other way other than their own.

 

[waveflyer]

I think we are lucky if we get a fair shake with the SLI. I don't think being stapled is lucky. That's the only downside I see being bought by a company with a strong balance sheet and senior pilot group. The whole we are better than you thing was bound to be unavoidable. I accept that it is not possible for a SWA pilot to see this any other way other than their own.

Why can't a job and a company be better w/o the people involved being compared?
I've said it before- don't find yourself on the Swapa list whether stapled or integrated by any means and think you're not lucky. You are. As am I. None of us are bigger than SWA.

7000 applicants for 100 positions who will be forever stapled to the bottom of ALL of us, ought to tell you this.

 

[humveedriver]

Why can't a job and a company be better w/o the people involved being compared?
I've said it before- don't find yourself on the Swapa list whether stapled or integrated by any means and think you're not lucky. You are. As am I. None of us are bigger than SWA.

7000 applicants for 100 positions who will be forever stapled to the bottom of ALL of us, ought to tell you this.

I think that's a great question. I tried goggling most admired companies and google completed the search for me after i merely typed "most ad". SWA ranks 4th in the world according to Fortune. That's not even against other airlines, that's including ALL major corporations. So without a doubt it is a an honor that SWA bought AirTran. But I don't think it is fair to factor in the pilots to that argument because we are "widgets" in the equation. Once we are hired we have seniority numbers and our advancement is based on that number and not "performance". Imagine if our seniority was evaluated yearly based on our individual on time performances and fuel consumption per leg! Every airline has thousands of applicants for few jobs, it is the nature of the industry. Post 9/11 AT had over 10,000 applicants. When I was job hunting I had my resume in a at least 6 major airlines, make that ALL the majors that were hiring. So SWA bought my airline, I think that is a different ball of wax than being hired off the street. It doesn't make me any less appreciative of the company signing my paycheck or less appreciative of the culture they developed and maintained. Which is the best in the industry. From everything I have read, Corporate SWA is really taking a really positive approach to integrating AT. So we are already getting a glimpse of what you already know. It's just that at the end of the day I think we are both pilots, ATP, type one each and need to respect we ended up at the same place via different paths. You are going to say my path was easier (even though I never sent SWA my app thanks to the terrorists). I suppose thats why there is a process agreement, merger committee and even arbitrators. Because there is no realistic way for either side to say what is fair all on thier own.

 

[Quimby]

I think we are lucky if we get a fair shake with the SLI. I don't think being stapled is lucky. That's the only downside I see being bought by a company with a strong balance sheet and senior pilot group. The whole we are better than you thing was bound to be unavoidable. I accept that it is not possible for any pilot to see this any other way other than their own.

Fixed it for you.

 

[Ty Webb]

. . . . So without a doubt it is a an honor that SWA bought AirTran. But I don't think it is fair to factor in the pilots to that argument because we are "widgets" in the equation. Once we are hired we have seniority numbers and our advancement is based on that number and not "performance". Imagine if our seniority was evaluated yearly based on our individual on time performances and fuel consumption per leg! Every airline has thousands of applicants for few jobs, it is the nature of the industry. Post 9/11 AT had over 10,000 applicants. When I was job hunting I had my resume in a at least 6 major airlines, make that ALL the majors that were hiring. So SWA bought my airline, I think that is a different ball of wax than being hired off the street. . . . . ..

Very well put. I couldn't agree more. . . . . If we were going to be be bought, I'm glad it was SWA, but to imply, as many SWA guys have, that we should be grateful to just walk away from our investment and start over at the bottom is ridiculous. We're not filling a vacancy, we're bringing the jobs with us. Don't like the jobs we're bringing? Think they're beneath you somehow? Don't bid 'em.

 

[waveflyer]

That was eloquent humvee- but that's not the point. You said if the SLI doesn't meet your expectations that the whole thing could be a "unlucky" turn of events. ...

Seriously?

Bc that's as ridiculous as any of us saying the same thing. Getting to FLY for one of the most admired companies anywhere AND be well paid is never an unlucky event. Most of us are slugging it out having to fly for the most inept and ridiculous companies to stay in our career. Of which Air Tran was one. Remember you were saving for a strike/

Ty- you are bringing your jobs- but unless you're asking for a fence over them, then you aren't considering that we're bringing a LOT more jobs and a better company who is paying you a LOT more. To be integrated evenly into our jobs is a better benefit to y'all then us gaining access to yours-
Says the guy west of the rockies.

 

[humveedriver]

That was eloquent humvee- but that's not the point. You said if the SLI doesn't meet your expectations that the whole thing could be a "unlucky" turn of events. ...

Seriously?

Bc that's as ridiculous as any of us saying the same thing. Getting to FLY for one of the most admired companies anywhere AND be well paid is never an unlucky event. Most of us are slugging it out having to fly for the most inept and ridiculous companies to stay in our career. Of which Air Tran was one. Remember you were saving for a strike/

Ty- you are bringing your jobs- but unless you're asking for a fence over them, then you aren't considering that we're bringing a LOT more jobs and a better company who is paying you a LOT more. To be integrated evenly into our jobs is a better benefit to y'all then us gaining access to yours-
Says the guy west of the rockies.

Wave, I'm sure you are painfully aware that I had nothing to do with this acquisition. I know exactly how you guys feel. The view from my foxhole is not that different than your own. It's all about preserving as much bidding power as possible. At the end of the day all any of us want to do is to be able to bid those days off that we need to make our wife/kid happy (well those are my reasons..eveyone has their own). It really doesn't matter if the SLI meets my expectations or not. I'm going to make the best out any situation, because that's how I roll. I got your point though. FWIW, I don't think our strike vote is a valid argument. We were trying to make AirTran a better place. We were trying to help our F/O's. I don't think there is a single airline pilot out there who doesn't understand and respect what that strike vote represented for us and the industry as a whole.

 

[scoreboardII]

I FWIW, I don't think our strike vote is a valid argument. .

FWIW, it is a very valid argument showing the conditions you were working under at the moment of snapshot.

A group who had had enough with their current employer and where willing to job action to get their point across. How can you not see that as relevant?

 

[humveedriver]

FWIW, it is a very valid argument showing the conditions you were working under at the moment of snapshot.

A group who had had enough with their current employer and where willing to job action to get their point across. How can you not see that as relevant?

That's called damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[scoreboardII]

I agree with your pilot groups rationale, but your not answering why the strike vote is an invalid argument to show the state of AT pilots employment prospects.

In fact, you are bolstering my point by stating "damned if you do, damned if you don't", that shows you had no other choice and details the conditions you worked under.

So, again, why is the strike vote irrelevant?

 

[Ty Webb]

I agree with your pilot groups rationale, but your not answering why the strike vote is an invalid argument to show the state of AT pilots employment prospects.

I can't believe you wrote this. How much airline industry do you have, outside of SWA?

What about a Fedex job . . . A UPS job, a job at pre-9/11 Delta? Crappy jobs, huh? Must have been. Those pilots took strike votes, too.

The more times you bring it up, the more you look the fool.

 

[humveedriver]

I think I am just looking at it differently than you are. I am looking at it as an example of our unity and our dedication to make AT a better workplace. You are saying "look how bad it was there". We finally got our act together and took a stand. If you say it's relevant, so be it. It was a pretty defining moment though for a pilot group that had been through alot.

 

[27 driver]

Truth is that none of us know what the arbitrators will consider in our situation. It's been said many times here before that every integration is different and brings unique dynamics to play. Will it be pay, longevity, seats, career expectations, future growth, awesome points, etc.? There will be a panel of three and they could all look at different criteria to formulate their decision. In the end they will solve any unresolved issues and we will move on....good, bad or indifferent. At least I will. I assume most others will as well.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

That was eloquent humvee- but that's not the point. You said if the SLI doesn't meet your expectations that the whole thing could be a "unlucky" turn of events. ...

Seriously?

Bc that's as ridiculous as any of us saying the same thing. Getting to FLY for one of the most admired companies anywhere AND be well paid is never an unlucky event. Most of us are slugging it out having to fly for the most inept and ridiculous companies to stay in our career. Of which Air Tran was one. Remember you were saving for a strike/

Ty- you are bringing your jobs- but unless you're asking for a fence over them, then you aren't considering that we're bringing a LOT more jobs and a better company who is paying you a LOT more. To be integrated evenly into our jobs is a better benefit to y'all then us gaining access to yours-
Says the guy west of the rockies.

There are a few scenarios that could make this an unlucky event for different demographics of our pilot group for different reasons. I guess we are all rediculous to some degree.

As far as bringing jobs to add to the greater number of jobs you already have, to make even more jobs, that's a true statement. However, the "better company that is paying us a lot more" (your words) isn't coming from you as much as the mgmt that has promoted the culture that you enjoy. If it weren't for their mgmt style, you'd be sluggin it out like the rest of us.

It is refreshing to hear some of your own espouse being "lucky" to have been hired by WN. Why is OK for them to be lucky to be hired, but it's a curse for the FL guys to be lucky enough to be bought out by WN? Most of us from both sides of the fence would rather be lucky than good any day .

 

[scoreboardII]

I can't believe you wrote this. How much airline industry do you have, outside of SWA? more than you tiger, since 79.

What about a Fedex job . . . A UPS job, a job at pre-9/11 Delta? Crappy jobs, huh? Must have been. Those pilots took strike votes, too. And they still work there...

The more times you bring it up, the more you look the fool.

The only fool here is the fulltime property manager playing partime airline pilot.

The discussion is why was the strike vote irrelevant, not the state of how sucky or unsucky it was to work. You read to much between the lines. I think it is a relevant point, you don't, we'll see.