SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[bladeusa]

i'm going to go out on a limb here... is it the "One Luv" medallion?

 

[400ADude]

i'm going to go out on a limb here... is it the "One Luv" medallion?

My medallion didn't stand up to well against a 50 cal.:beer: Interesting sound it made!:beer:

 

[Crash Pad]

That's actually a pretty reasonable post. I see a lot of what you guys get but what does the WN pilot get out of all this?

Serious question.

Gup

The way I see it the only problem we have is that you have 10 year F/O's and we have 5 year F/O's.

Say you go date of hire. Wouldn't that solve this problem?

Is there another problem I am missing? Is there a concern that DOH isn't good enough for you? Like you go from being say number 1600 on a 5000 person list to 1625 on a 7000 person list?

Serious questions

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

My medallion didn't stand up to well against a 50 cal.:beer: Interesting sound it made!:beer:

I would send you mine but it never came. Ohh well it saves me the thought of what to do with it

 

[Lonestar]

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus. Is he out complaining about what is in it for him?

let's be fair here. Gary is the CEO of the company that acquired Bob's company. As such, Bob has no expectations to remain 'in his seat' as the CEO of SWA.

 

[dicko]

let's be fair here. Gary is the CEO of the company that acquired, merged or LUV'd Bob's company. As such, Bob has no expectations to remain 'in his seat' as the CEO of SWA.

Consensus at last ..... See, We can all agree.

 

[waveflyer]

The way I see it the only problem we have is that you have 10 year F/O's and we have 5 year F/O's.

Say you go date of hire. Wouldn't that solve this problem?

Is there another problem I am missing? Is there a concern that DOH isn't good enough for you? Like you go from being say number 1600 on a 5000 person list to 1625 on a 7000 person list?

Serious questions

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

 

[dicko]

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

Ask Eichen and his two new friends. Somebody has to be on the bottom. Right ?

 

[waveflyer]

Ask Eichen and his two new friends. Somebody has to be on the bottom. Right ?

Who's Eichen and his friends?

Do you really think that FOs at AT will get a 300 pilot cushion after being bought?

 

[redflyer65]

I really don't think the operations would be merged if that scenerio plays out. Way too many pissed of pilots to make things work like they do at SW.

 

[kwick]

I really don't think the operations would be merged if that scenerio plays out. Way too many pissed of pilots to make things work like they do at SW.

Relative seniority or DOH, the bottom
guys are still junior.

It looks likely that it will go to
arbitration.

 

[dicko]

Who's Eichen and his friends?

Do you really think that FOs at AT will get a 300 pilot cushion after being bought?

Apparently Eischen is the Arbitrator that has been selected. His "two friends" are the other two arbitrators selected. I called them "his friends" because I couldn't remember their names. Eischen will be the mediator as well.

Re. the FO's. Please don't misunderstand me. I meant there is going to be somebody at the bottom. Who and where they come from is well above my grade. I'm very glad I don't have to figure it out. I'm afraid of Pitchforks and Lanterns ..... and Clowns. Always the clowns.






Edited: because apparently I can't spell Eischen either.

 

[kwick]

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

No

In fact, much less of a problem than
bumping a Captain out of his seat.

 

[Crash Pad]

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

I think the snapshot list they are using to negotiate right now is from merger announcement. Are you referring to the hires after that? They are going to the bottom.

A problem. Not really. Lets see what DOH can do for you. It will open up a good chunk of upgrades for senior F/O's. While I think the seniority system is retarded it is airline standard. So if I have to pick people that get screwed it is the first year F/O over the 10 year F/O.

I like the idea that we would get a 300 pilot cushion. SWA furloughs ten percent I don't think 300 will save anybody.

I see your points. They are solid. If you really feel that DOH is completely out of the question then it goes to arbitration. Nobody knows what will happen in arbitration. McDonalds most likely thought the coffee case was stupid.

Arbitration: Staple will not happen. If you take that outcome off the table I really like my odds. I guess you could get the arbitrator to staple us to the bottom of your list except for your most junior F/O.

 

[Crash Pad]

Who's Eichen and his friends?

Do you really think that FOs at AT will get a 300 pilot cushion after being bought?

Oh yeah just out or curiosity how many pilots should cushion that 300? Should our bottom 300 go below them? Maybe our bottom 100? Remember you don't have to argue this to me you have to argue it to an arbitrator who doesn't fly airplanes.

"Finally sir our bottom 300 deserve a one half or 150 pilot cushion because we are Southwest and are 50% better than all other airlines."

I guess come out guns blazing. He can only say "no"... but I think you only get one proposal are you sure that is the one you want to go with. If it is I think we got a shot at relative.

 

[canyonblue]

If you really feel that DOH is completely out of the question then it goes to arbitration.

So according to your point of view, DOH is a worst case scenario. I'll just refrain from any SLI talk, and keep it at that.

 

[ASADFW7]

A shot at relative? Really, no chance, read Mike Van De Ven's statement no harm to any SWA pilot.

 

[scoreboardII]

I could forsee you being wrong on the relative-ish outcome, As long as pay protection schemes are employed. Guarantee pay protection for all SWA guys and you could place the 1700 new hires below Jim Rice for all I care.

 

[Ty Webb]

I really don't think the operations would be merged if that scenerio plays out. Way too many pissed of pilots to make things work like they do at SW.

Ha.

AAI pilots were thoroughly pissed, with good reason, from 2007-2010. Look at the performance numbers. You'd never know it.

 

[Crash Pad]

So according to your point of view, DOH is a worst case scenario. I'll just refrain from any SLI talk, and keep it at that.

Of course you will. You guys come on here and talk smack. I have only read one person on your side who pitched an idea. I'm guessing you don't know what you want but it better be better than DOH, not relative, etc...

Sack up at least I tossed out an idea. This message board is the only chance we have to speak openly with eachother. The idea of us speaking openly is so scary that our union forbids it.

So please, by all means, tell us what you are thinking.

DOH is not my worst case. I tried to think of what you guys are so upset about. I understand that you didn't want GK to buy us. I understand that you haven't had upgrades in a long time. I understand that your contract is the howitzer to our sling shot. I understand you have culture.

So I think to myself... "what do you give the person who has everything?" I came up with Captain slots via DOH. I see you want more... well I don't know how to tell you this... it's all we got.

 

[Crash Pad]

A shot at relative? Really, no chance, read Mike Van De Ven's statement no harm to any SWA pilot.

Read closer. I think if you go to arbitration with an unreasonable position the arbitrator will take our proposal. So if you go crazy train we only have to seem slightly more reasonable.

 

[dicko]

A shot at relative? Really, no chance, read Mike Van De Ven's statement no harm to any SWA pilot.

Define "harm" ?

 

[ASADFW7]

The SWAPA NC is not on the crazy train, though I am sure they are Ozzy fans, some of them are too young to appreciate him other than the stint on MTV. Flightinfo is more of a crazy train. Are you sure the AAI guys are presenting relative? I need new glasses, I am an old fart, I cannot read closer till they arrive.

 

[ASADFW7]

Harm? The average SWA pilot prior to the pay increase last fall. 88 hours pay

new hire age
30 $6,655,968 career pay
35 $5,568,288
40 $4,480,608
45 $3,392,928

The average Airtran pilot before the amendment of the last contract.

30 $4,995,936
35 $4,188,096
40 $3,380,256
45 $2,572,416


You can adjust the numbers for AAI as you like but harm, in this example of wages only, would be a lower total income number for SWA pilots based upon integration of the AAI pilot group. Where as delayed upgrade for AAI would be offset and then some by the SWA contract and benefits increase. Is that clear enough? Just one example.

 

[greenpilot]

How about go with relative, but fence off the upgrades for the next 5 years. SWA FO get their capt seat and Airtran FO's get good schedules.

 

[texman]

Swa guys do not talk about sli. This battle ain't over.

 

[ATLplt]

Swa guys do not talk about sli. This battle ain't over.

You called it a battle. I see you've truly embraced the "warrior spirt".

Since we're not suppose to talk about SLI scenarios, (and I'm hungry), I propose a subject change: Hot dogs on the grill...

Should I go Chicago style with the peppers and such, straight up spicy, chilli dogs, or take it south of the border with salsa dogs? I'm indecisive, discuss...

 

[Cruncher]

Chicago style! Doing the same as I type!

Nice rudder steer.

 

[slaquer5]

You called it a battle. I see you've truly embraced the "warrior spirt".

Since we're not suppose to talk about SLI scenarios, (and I'm hungry), I propose a subject change: Hot dogs on the grill...

Should I go Chicago style with the peppers and such, straight up spicy, chilli dogs, or take it south of the border with salsa dogs? I'm indecisive, discuss...

I am thinking burgers and just ordered a pizza. Already had some beer, but thinking more would be nice

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Lying in bed with a stomach virus. Just thinking about food is making my head spin.