SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[waveflyer]

There are consequences for everybody for everything . For both you and I.

Did we commit a crime ? We woke up one morning and our boss had sold us. You're not Attila the Hun. If you want to behave like the APA then you'll end up with a culture like American Airlines.

A Crime? No- but you got bought. Can you not experience consequences, both good and bad and neither, without commuting a crime?
(wth?):^~

As for the APA comment- Are you saying that the APA is responsible for the culture at AA??

Believe me, our culture will be great with or w/o you, no matter how the SLI plays out. There are too many leaders, beginning w/ GK and filtered throughout our ranks including hundreds upon hundreds of swa pilots.
Part of that culture is to compete and take care of our own while respecting all relationships. The best path for AT is to get on the list- get to work taking care of every internal customer you see- and watch the culture work- you will end up happy and rich.

Too many pilots have tried to wag the wn dog. To their own detriment.
No threats, we're moving along-
But it needs to be said .

 

[madjack]

I am not sure that the AAI guys appreciate how lucky they are to be acquired by SWA...AAI CP seats are somehow sancrosanct, hell SWA downgrades CPs ALL the time...why should AAI CPs get "seat protection" our own pilots don't even get...you will hold whatever seat your seniority allows period...

If the "raises" you will get under our CBA are not as important as the seat (as some AAI pilots have implied), keep the seat and forfeit the $$ simple (give the raise to the SWA pilots)...

 

[slaquer5]

AirTran never promised ata anything. Swa is the one that told mayor daily no jobs would be lost in Chicago. Swa did offer some interviews to ata but hired very few pilots. AirTran hired more ata pilots than any other airline. You are right that swa didn't buy ata. What they did do was put a swa guy in charge of ata and then slowly put them out of business.

Funny blame everyone else. ATA was a run poorly with inept management .

 

[JT12345]

I am not sure that the AAI guys appreciate how lucky they are to be acquired by SWA...AAI CP seats are somehow sancrosanct, hell SWA downgrades CPs ALL the time...why should AAI CPs get "seat protection" our own pilots don't even get...you will hold whatever seat your seniority allows period...

If the "raises" you will get under our CBA are not as important as the seat (as some AAI pilots have implied), keep the seat and forfeit the $$ simple (give the raise to the SWA pilots)...

Pay is fleeting. It comes... it goes away.

Luck... are you kidding me. We are being bought because we are a thorn in SWAs side. We are a fierce competitor. I won't say we make a lot of money, but we make other companies lose money. We have either been holding our ground in BOS or expanding in SWA territory in BWI and MCO. And we are doing very well in MKE. Better then they are. What does that tell you. SWA has been worrying about us for a long time now.

Are you stupid enough to think the gravy train lasts foever in this business. Airlines have been the most competitive industry for along time. Stupidly so. One of the good things about oil is a bunch of dumb arses can't startup an airline undercut everyone and go out of business. It has actually bought some stability with the mergers to the industry. It is about survival now.

Senority is the only hard currency.

Why do u think the SWA guys care so much about it and are upset and worried? I for one understand it. You need to get a clue.

 

[GuppyWN]

JT,

Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.

Feel free to give me, say, a two year window? I don't want you to out yourself but your "this is MY seat and I'm not giving it up come hell or high water" has me intrigued.

Gup

 

[madjack]

JT,

You have been bought by a company that pays and treats its pilots better than your old one. Start at the bottom like everyone else or stay fenced at your old pay/benefits and seat...don't scoff at the money that just makes you look greedy...

 

[texman]

JT12345,

As far as AT being a thorn, I agree. It was cheaper to buy you than bleed our cash to put you out of business. AT is a thing of the past now. Time to let go. Cash comes and goes. But you need to come to terms that you will still have a job, a good one at that. You are lucky, we all are. If this was a corporate america job your azz would be on the street. Stop whining. We all care about seniority. You are lucky. Count your blessing like we all do at SWA. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE--------- read AT's financials and figure out if you would have a had a job in five years. Be humble bro. Go drink some beer.

 

[miles otoole]

Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.

How can a Captain at one airline be junior to an FO at another? Does that make a FO at AA senior to a CA at SW? Is a FO at US senior to a CA at AW? Makes no sense.

 

[madjack]

Toole,

Longevity, DOH at AAI vs DOH at SWA...jumpseated with a 2005 SWA hire who left AAI for SWA (he was a 93 AAI hire)...he is NOT happy about this merger...he stated there are some "real winners" in the top 1-200 AAI CPs...

 

[RLAblows]

JT,
...don't scoff at the money that just makes you look greedy...

That doesn't make any sense.

All I keep hearing is money money money, it really makes one believe that if it were a 1999, 2000 environment in the industry you guys would all be trying to get on at United and Delta, and not giving a rip about your "culture." All I hear is greed on this message board.

 

[scoreboardII]

Greed is good.

Gordon Gecko.

 

[dicko]

As for the APA comment- Are you saying that the APA is responsible for the culture at AA??

I was referring to the attitude the APA had towards the TWA pilots. I believe they compared them to Wall Mart. We both know how they treated them in the SLI.

They were arrogant and Karma hasn't treated them well.

I understand there were other forces at work also. They'll be in front of a judge shortly.

 

[RLAblows]

Greed is good.

Gordon Gecko.

Then he went to prison. Worked out pretty good for Gecko.

 

[scoreboardII]

I guess you didn't see the next movie...

 

[Tripower455]

That doesn't make any sense.

All I keep hearing is money money money, it really makes one believe that if it were a 1999, 2000 environment in the industry you guys would all be trying to get on at United and Delta, and not giving a rip about your "culture." All I hear is greed on this message board.

I very briefly considered leaving SW for DL in '98, but couldn't afford to risk a furlough, besides, I didn't meet their hiring qualifications with 10K+ hours, 5 type ratings, 12 years in the 121 world.

I wake up every day firmly believing that it's far better to be lucky than good!

 

[RLAblows]

I very briefly considered leaving SW for DL in '98, but couldn't afford to risk a furlough, besides, I didn't meet their hiring qualifications with 10K+ hours, 5 type ratings, 12 years in the 121 world.

I wake up every day firmly believing that it's far better to be lucky than good!

I appreciate your honesty. Very true about this industry when it comes to luck and timing. I've been pretty lucky so far.

 

[Tripower455]

I appreciate your honesty. Very true about this industry when it comes to luck and timing. I've been pretty lucky so far.

I am so lucky I never finished my 4 year degree...... I might have actually gone to Delta.

Oh, and I was not actively looking to leave SW. My old man was a Pan Amer that went to DL with with the Atlantic routes (that really started DL in the international business). A contemporary of his that got an office job after he turned 60 worked in some capacity in hiring. They were actually having a hard time finding qualified applicants at that time, and the guy knew I was a pilot. He called my old man and asked him if I were interested in a job at DL. I hadn't really considered leaving SW, as I really liked the company, but the pay and retirement numbers were a bit better over at DL. The nagging issue was losing my seniority, and the very real risk of a furlough ( the country was showing signs of the coming recession). It was really a tough decision, so I decided to fill out the UPAS app, and then, make the decision if I got the job. Before I filled out the flight time grid (I hadn't totalled my logbook in over 3 years at that point), I decided to check the minimum requirements. When I read that a 4 year degree was one of the requirements (the only one I didn't meet in spades, BTW), I called my old man, and he called his friend to ask. The guy didn't think it would be a big deal, considering my other quals, but he made a call, and was exasperated that they wouldn't waive that considering my experience. I was actually relieved that I wouldn't have to make a tough decision (a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush), and obviously, I am far better off than had I gone over.

I never looked at going anywhere else after getting hired at SW. After having an active application on file for over 8 years, UAL finally called me for an interview about 6 months after I got hired, and I never even responded, although I did consider going to the interview wearing a pair of jeans, a SW tee shirt, leather jacket and ropers just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

 

[RLAblows]

I never looked at going anywhere else after getting hired at SW. After having an active application on file for over 8 years, UAL finally called me for an interview about 6 months after I got hired, and I never even responded, although I did consider going to the interview wearing a pair of jeans, a SW tee shirt, leather jacket and ropers just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

Good story. I particularly like the last part. I think we all have the same sentiment when it came down to UAL and their hiring practices. It probably helped contribute to the sinking of the USS United in training costs alone. When/if I get over to the SWA side beers are on me.

 

[SWA/FO]

just to see their reaction to my total disdain I have/had for their hiring practices.

Yep... they were tough.

RLAblows.... get over here! I like free Beers!!

 

[Lear70]

JT,

Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.

He's not.

You have been bought by a company that pays and treats its pilots better than your old one. Start at the bottom like everyone else or stay fenced at your old pay/benefits and seat...don't scoff at the money that just makes you look greedy...

I thought we talked about that... a staple just isn't going to happen, nor is fencing off the operation. So why do you keep insisting on talking about it and deliberately irritating us?

It'll all work out, my friend. Just gotta have a little faith. Enjoy your weekend... :beer: