Damn, how true is that? Well said.
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SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat
- Thread starter JT12345
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Damn, how true is that? Well said.
Depends what you call relative.
NWA got a 25% raise taking on Delta rates. Max loss of 2% in relative senority, and NWA kept their retirement.
BTW before the merger Airtran pilots made 15% more than narrow body pilots at NWA. Now we r tied with Delta.
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waveflyer
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So we should be punished because we built a company that your boss wanted?
redflyer65
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dicko
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There are consequences for everybody for everything . For both you and I.
Did we commit a crime ? We woke up one morning and our boss had sold us. You're not Attila the Hun. If you want to behave like the APA then you'll end up with a culture like American Airlines.
Ty Webb
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You mean if Mesa wasn't bankrupt? There would have to be integration, but there's a big difference between the aircraft size. The larger AAI aircraft would likely factor into it, just like in DAL/NWA they split the groups into NB and WB.
You wouldn't see pilots flushed out of equipment, seat and domicile, just like you aren't likely to see that in our SLI.
So what exactly do you propose? You are comparing a regional to a major. Whether you want to believe it or not we both are majors. We fly the same equipment on similar routes. Furthermore, if an arbitrator came back with that decision than so be it. I wouldn't think I am deserving of their captain seats as I did not have them previously. Its just a difference of opinion really. If you believe that all are capts should be downgraded and their seats given to SWA FO's then that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. That is probably why this will come down to arbitration. Either way cheers mate. SERENITY NOW!!!! SERENITY NOW!!!
redflyer65
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Yes, if they weren't in bankruptcy.
Didn't you mean pay? You can't have it both ways...aircraft size, pay. One in the same.
Gonna be interesting to see how it all works out. Hopefully we can negotiate a large portion of it..maybe not 100%, but as close as we can then move on with the final award.
redflyer65
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I could have chosen Alligent instead of Mesa, would that make it all better? Similar aircraft size. Realitive seniority would be okay right?
It's harder to argue the otherside of the coin when you are put in that corner.
Just like the F9 guys wanting ALL the republic guys stapled because F9 flew larger aircraft. Didn't turn out as planned.
SWA is not buying bankrupt assets. Big difference even if you refuse to see it.
GuppyWN
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Do you consider all the benefits of being acquired by Southwest, including a pay raise to a very large pay raise, punishment?
Interesting viewpoint.
Gup
Ty Webb
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You're out of your mind. We didn't buy them, you did. We probably hired more of them than you did, though.
imp:greenpilot
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AirTran never promised ata anything. Swa is the one that told mayor daily no jobs would be lost in Chicago. Swa did offer some interviews to ata but hired very few pilots. AirTran hired more ata pilots than any other airline. You are right that swa didn't buy ata. What they did do was put a swa guy in charge of ata and then slowly put them out of business.
400ADude
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Very interesting.
RLAblows
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waveflyer
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A Crime? No- but you got bought. Can you not experience consequences, both good and bad and neither, without commuting a crime?
(wth?):^~
As for the APA comment- Are you saying that the APA is responsible for the culture at AA??
Believe me, our culture will be great with or w/o you, no matter how the SLI plays out. There are too many leaders, beginning w/ GK and filtered throughout our ranks including hundreds upon hundreds of swa pilots.
Part of that culture is to compete and take care of our own while respecting all relationships. The best path for AT is to get on the list- get to work taking care of every internal customer you see- and watch the culture work- you will end up happy and rich.
Too many pilots have tried to wag the wn dog. To their own detriment.
No threats, we're moving along-
But it needs to be said .
I am not sure that the AAI guys appreciate how lucky they are to be acquired by SWA...AAI CP seats are somehow sancrosanct, hell SWA downgrades CPs ALL the time...why should AAI CPs get "seat protection" our own pilots don't even get...you will hold whatever seat your seniority allows period...
If the "raises" you will get under our CBA are not as important as the seat (as some AAI pilots have implied), keep the seat and forfeit the $$ simple (give the raise to the SWA pilots)...
If the "raises" you will get under our CBA are not as important as the seat (as some AAI pilots have implied), keep the seat and forfeit the $$ simple (give the raise to the SWA pilots)...
slaquer5
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Funny blame everyone else. ATA was a run poorly with inept management .
Pay is fleeting. It comes... it goes away.
Luck... are you kidding me. We are being bought because we are a thorn in SWAs side. We are a fierce competitor. I won't say we make a lot of money, but we make other companies lose money. We have either been holding our ground in BOS or expanding in SWA territory in BWI and MCO. And we are doing very well in MKE. Better then they are. What does that tell you. SWA has been worrying about us for a long time now.
Are you stupid enough to think the gravy train lasts foever in this business. Airlines have been the most competitive industry for along time. Stupidly so. One of the good things about oil is a bunch of dumb arses can't startup an airline undercut everyone and go out of business. It has actually bought some stability with the mergers to the industry. It is about survival now.
Senority is the only hard currency.
Why do u think the SWA guys care so much about it and are upset and worried? I for one understand it. You need to get a clue.
GuppyWN
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JT,
Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.
Feel free to give me, say, a two year window? I don't want you to out yourself but your "this is MY seat and I'm not giving it up come hell or high water" has me intrigued.
Gup
Sure be interesting to know what year you were hired at Airtran......... I'm thinking you're one of the Captains that's junior to our senior FO's.
Feel free to give me, say, a two year window? I don't want you to out yourself but your "this is MY seat and I'm not giving it up come hell or high water" has me intrigued.
Gup
JT12345,
As far as AT being a thorn, I agree. It was cheaper to buy you than bleed our cash to put you out of business. AT is a thing of the past now. Time to let go. Cash comes and goes. But you need to come to terms that you will still have a job, a good one at that. You are lucky, we all are. If this was a corporate america job your azz would be on the street. Stop whining. We all care about seniority. You are lucky. Count your blessing like we all do at SWA. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE--------- read AT's financials and figure out if you would have a had a job in five years. Be humble bro. Go drink some beer.
As far as AT being a thorn, I agree. It was cheaper to buy you than bleed our cash to put you out of business. AT is a thing of the past now. Time to let go. Cash comes and goes. But you need to come to terms that you will still have a job, a good one at that. You are lucky, we all are. If this was a corporate america job your azz would be on the street. Stop whining. We all care about seniority. You are lucky. Count your blessing like we all do at SWA. LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE--------- read AT's financials and figure out if you would have a had a job in five years. Be humble bro. Go drink some beer.
miles otoole
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How can a Captain at one airline be junior to an FO at another? Does that make a FO at AA senior to a CA at SW? Is a FO at US senior to a CA at AW? Makes no sense.
RLAblows
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That doesn't make any sense.
All I keep hearing is money money money, it really makes one believe that if it were a 1999, 2000 environment in the industry you guys would all be trying to get on at United and Delta, and not giving a rip about your "culture." All I hear is greed on this message board.
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