SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[SWA/FO]

The only people to lose are the SWA folks, AAI already knows no difference.

I don't find this statement true at all.

 

[texman]

MMMMMMMM, mexican food and punch.

 

[General Lee]

Talking to yourself again? Doesn't virtual Delta need you to virtually fly to virtual Bangkok or some other virtual destination?

Yep, Delta still goes there. Same with Singapore, Manilla, Hong Kong, Shanghai (just restarted ATL nonstop with a 777), Guam, Saipan, Korror (Palau), Sydney, Beijing, Taipei, Nagoya, Osaka, Tokyo, Pusan, Honolulu, Kona, Maui, Lihue, Seoul, ----and those are just the daily or more flights to the Pacific.

Now what about South and Central America---Rio, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Quito, Guayaquil, Manaus, Brasilia, Caracas, Bogota, Panama City, Lima, Georgetown, Managua, Guatamala City, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula, Liberia, San Jose, Roatan, etc.

How about the Caribbean? San Juan (you got that one with Airtran), St Thomas, St Croix, St Kitts, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Montego Bay, Kingston, Barbados, Antigua, Santo Domingo, Punta Cana, Puerta Plata, Grand Cayman, Grenada, St Martaen, etc.

How about Europe? London (Heathrow and Gatwick), Manchester, Dublin, Shannon, Brussels, Amsterdam, Moscow, Istanbul, Dusseldorf, Munich, Frankfurt, Paris, Nice, Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, Venice, Prague, Athens, Copenhagen, Stuttgart, Berlin, Tel Aviv, Malaga, Valencia, etc.

How about Africa? Accra, Lagos, Abuja, Monrovia, Dakar, Johanesburg.


I may have missed a few (all memory, thanks), but those are with DL metal. Add to that a domestic hub in ATL that is bigger and busier than anything you have (70% of the busiest airport in the world), and hubs in the Midwest (MSP/DTW/CVG/MEM), East Coast (JFK, and bigger LGA with slot swap with USAir), West Coast (SEA/SLC/LAX), and I think you are starting to see that the virtual thing you say is a bunch of BULL S..... But wait, you do have Hobby and Love Field.......(hear crickets? yeah) Great for you. Again, apples to oranges. You just aren't a world player, and I guess that's ok for you.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I don't find this statement true at all.

No, it's very true. Stagnation will occur for some Southwest folks, in the form of delayed upgrade, maybe lower seniority in base. On the other hand, the Airtran guys get huge raises, more base choices, and the chance to have a SWA pilot yank gear for him. TALK ABOUT FANTASTIC. The only things that may be good for Southwest pilots is the chance to fly and live in ATL, fly into DCA, and maybe start training on a new plane (717) without paying for it. Sounds like a win win for both of you! Be nice now to your brothers in ATL, they may be your Captain one day.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[8v8tr]

I don't find this statement true at all.

So you think it is not true that you will lose the culture that you all know and love? Think about what you are saying...the AAI people do not have the culture so if the culture implodes here then they will have exactly what they had there, none...

 

[On Your Six]

Yep, Delta still goes there. Same with Singapore, Manilla, Hong Kong, Shanghai (just restarted ATL nonstop with a 777), Guam, Saipan, Korror (Palau), Sydney, Beijing, Taipei, Nagoya, Osaka, Tokyo, Pusan, Honolulu, Kona, Maui, Lihue, Seoul, ----and those are just the daily or more flights to the Pacific.

Now what about South and Central America---Rio, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Santiago, Quito, Guayaquil, Manaus, Brasilia, Caracas, Bogota, Panama City, Lima, Georgetown, Managua, Guatamala City, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula, Liberia, San Jose, Roatan, etc.

How about the Caribbean? San Juan (you got that one with Airtran), St Thomas, St Croix, St Kitts, Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Montego Bay, Kingston, Barbados, Antigua, Santo Domingo, Punta Cana, Puerta Plata, Grand Cayman, Grenada, St Martaen, etc.

How about Europe? London (Heathrow and Gatwick), Manchester, Dublin, Shannon, Brussels, Amsterdam, Moscow, Istanbul, Dusseldorf, Munich, Frankfurt, Paris, Nice, Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, Venice, Prague, Athens, Copenhagen, Stuttgart, Berlin, Tel Aviv, Malaga, Valencia, etc.

How about Africa? Accra, Lagos, Abuja, Monrovia, Dakar, Johanesburg.


I may have missed a few (all memory, thanks), but those are with DL metal. Add to that a domestic hub in ATL that is bigger and busier than anything you have (70% of the busiest airport in the world), and hubs in the Midwest (MSP/DTW/CVG/MEM), East Coast (JFK, and bigger LGA with slot swap with USAir), West Coast (SEA/SLC/LAX), and I think you are starting to see that the virtual thing you say is a bunch of BULL S..... But wait, you do have Hobby and Love Field.......(hear crickets? yeah) Great for you. Again, apples to oranges. You just aren't a world player, and I guess that's ok for you.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Tripower-cord just got OWNED. Good one Lee.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

No, it's very true. Stagnation will occur for some Southwest folks, in the form of delayed upgrade, maybe lower seniority in base. On the other hand, the Airtran guys get huge raises, more base choices, and the chance to have a SWA pilot yank gear for him. TALK ABOUT FANTASTIC. The only things that may be good for Southwest pilots is the chance to fly and live in ATL, fly into DCA, and maybe start training on a new plane (717) without paying for it. Sounds like a win win for both of you! Be nice now to your brothers in ATL, they may be your Captain one day.......


Bye Bye---General Lee

Don't tell SWA F/O that, he just doesn't see any truth in that. None. Zip. Nada.



OYS

 

[SWA/FO]

I believe there is another Pilot group that has a lot more to lose then the Southwest Pilots. The old saying: Don't count your eggs before they hatch, comes to mind.

I already am a SWAPA Pilot.

 

[8v8tr]

I believe there is another Pilot group that has a lot more to lose then the Southwest Pilots. The old saying: Don't count your eggs before they hatch, comes to mind.

I already am a SWAPA Pilot.

Interesting, when did SWAPA start hiring pilots?

 

[redflyer65]

Tripower-cord just got OWNED. Good one Lee.


OYS

Not even close to owned. General likes to throw out some anti-SW garbage about Volaris when he has EIGHT codeshare partners and almost 50% domestic Regional Feed.

Then he tries his best to spin it with long boring post.

He has ZERO credibility when it comes to these issues. The DALPA house is burning and he tries to make you think it's all business as usual. Well maybe it is..for them.

RF

 

[redflyer65]

So you think it is not true that you will lose the culture that you all know and love? Think about what you are saying...the AAI people do not have the culture so if the culture implodes here then they will have exactly what they had there, none...

40 years of Southwest culture/history and you really think Gary Kelly is just going to gut it with this AAI purchase?

 

[8v8tr]

40 years of Southwest culture/history and you really think Gary Kelly is just going to gut it with this AAI purchase?

No GK is not going to gut it, the pilots will. (especially some of the JO on this forum) MGMT has way too much to lose in this, they will do all they can to make it work. Way too much at stake at this point.

We have a choice, either embrace the new norm, or fight it tooth and nail and start looking for SWA to become "just another ********************ty place to work" it really is up to us.

 

[ASADFW7]

Even with individuals who are less than exciting to work with. SWA will not become a crappy place to work after this, we may have a few more people who think life sucks, but that is about it.

 

[8v8tr]

Even with individuals who are less than exciting to work with. SWA will not become a crappy place to work after this, we may have a few more people who think life sucks, but that is about it.

True, but my point in this is either we can all come together and make this one great airline or we can splinter and have the SOS as every other ( merged) airline. Remember, the faster we get this done, the more $$ goes in our pockets since our profit sharing is tied to the company (now AAI/SWA as one) making money. If we keep the groups split and AAI loses money, who loses? WE all do, since last time I checked LUV owns all shares now of AAI stock.

 

[SWA/FO]

Interesting, when did SWAPA start hiring pilots?

Southwest Pilots = SWAPA Pilots. I could have inserted "Southwest" where SWAPA was, yes. But the trannys need to be SWAPA Pilots to fly for Southwest. They desire our contract/QOL - that is SWAPA's contract.

If they say they don't want a $5000 a month raise - they must be high.

 

[Ty Webb]

If they say they don't want a $5000 a month raise - they must be high.

$5,000. a month ain't much. After taxes, it's about $1800. a pay period. Whoopty-doo.

 

[ASADFW7]

Man could have been real senior if I just stayed at any one if my previous jobs. Then I would have been that old fart who never left and coulda woulda shoulda. Enjoy your good fortune.

 

[JT12345]

If you were "us" guys? You'd be worried about paycuts in the next 5 years? Please provide data to convince us of your stance. If the answer is "just because" you'll have to try harder.

Um. Where you been the last 30 years since deregulation?

Oh yeah the Southwest bubble. Do you have any idea how many Legacy companies have died or the change in earnings of the average Major Airline pilot? Actually SWA has grown a lot during it. Not only did Airline pilots take a 40% pay cut, but an average of 6 million per pilot in retirement pensions were destroyed in bankruptcy. I will say SWA out competed those companies at every opportunity the last 20 years. I think you guys have lost the edge though, hence this merger and buying what you can not compete with.

Will the pay and benefits be around the next 10-20 years?.... you have a really tough sell their Gup. This is a brutal dynamic business. Adapt or die.

Where have you been the last 30 years after deregulation? Oh yeah the SWA bubble.
Average Airline Pilot pay as snapped back to 1980. The average 35 yr career earnings before 911 were 12-16 million. Salary was half of that and the other half from retirement and living past 74 yrs old. These numbers are from the 10 year old Air Inc books and what they said back then. I would have to dig them out if I did not through them away.

You know that after 911 the government only gave out 1.6 billion of the 10 billion bailout money to the airlines. It drove many airlines into bankruptcy. This number pales in comparison to the bail out of the banks or autos after OCT08. Then there is oil and hedging (gambling) compared to your rivals. Just some more variables.

Predicting 30 year career earnings in this industry is a joke with all the mergers, oil speculation and government tampering that can change that. Where do you think we work… the Post Office?

 

[Ty Webb]

Man could have been real senior if I just stayed at any one if my previous jobs. Then I would have been that old fart who never left and coulda woulda shoulda. Enjoy your good fortune.

Don't have to wait to be an old fart to enjoy your seniority at AAI. Hell, we had some make CA before they were 30. :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

$5,000. a month ain't much. After taxes, it's about $1800. a pay period. Whoopty-doo.

Its actually probably more. Don't come over then. Bid the 717 go where they go.