Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[netjetwife]

I'm a 135 pilot and I'd hate to be labaled a scab. So with that in mind if American Airlines went on strike and there passengers that got stranded flew on Delta instead does that make the Delta pilot a scab ???? I'm not sure what is wrong or right but I don't think other charter operators that end up flying some NJ pax should be labaled a scab. Good luck guys hope you get want you need and deserve.

The difference, as it has been explained to me, between that airline example and the NJ situation, is the PRIMARY PURPOSE of the flight. In your example, the pilot was already taking the flight with his/her company's px, regardless if others climbed aboard. Charter pilots taking a flight that was arranged by NJA to fly NJ px, are flying struck work. They are replacing the NJ pilots that are trying to legally apply leverage to the company, as a last resort.

No one rushes into a strike; it is seen as a last option. After all this time--3.5 yrs--and a much stronger negotiating team backed up by pilot surveys, it should be obvious that the NJ pilots have tried hard to work things out. They are currently using informational picketing to get their message across. IF the pilots are FORCED into a strike, wouldn't you agree that shorter is better? The more pilots standing together for fair wages the stronger they will be and the quicker a resolution will be found.

I just thought giving a fair warning was the right thing to do. If there are less NJ pilots discussing the issue now, it is because they believe that management also reads this board--a reasonable assumption--and aren't willing to get into any conversations from which the other side may glean information. I'd like to make a different request from my original pitch for support. It goes back to what we were taught as children. IF YOU CAN'T SAY SOMETHING NICE, PLEASE DON'T SAY ANYTHING. This has nothing to do with avoiding your ire; it is all about asking charter pilots not to let management know where you stand on the issue. If you don't care and will take the flights anyway, then please, at least, keep that to yourself. Can't you do that small favor for pilots that are risking a lot to pull wages up for everyone in the industry?

To those of you who have said something nice, our thanks!

 

[G100driver]

netjetwife, you should just drop this. While we all support you, no one ... I mean NO ONE is going to risk their job in support of a company that do not work for. Especially if you do not have representation.

Just drop it and say thank-you for the kind words. You are losing this one and look like an idiot the more you write about it.

 

[FAcFriend]

NJw
do not want to get into conversation where Management can "glean" any information?

You remind me of my children playing "comando" in the back yard.

Charter companies are not other "countries" that you are getting to support your cause and asking to chip in financially so your family can succeed. They are real people with real mortgages who chose not to work at net jets.

This is not about "integrity" as you have suggested- it is about money- your money. NOT my money, not charter pilots money...it is about YOUR husbands paycheck and how many hours he has to work to earn it.

If it was about "integrity and respect" as you have said, you are saying your "integrity and respect" can be bought and sold with a better contract.

I have more faith in your integrity than that.

 

[netjetwife]

G100 Driver, please reread my post above yours. Didn't I basically just do as you request, complete with the thanks for the kind words? My post was directed at Kilroy who HAD expressed concern and asked a question. I felt that he deserved an answer. From now on, as far as this subject is concerned, I'll be replying only to posts like that. The union's position has been made known (yes the explanation I posted came from the top) and I'm under no illusions about the feelings of SOME--how many remains to be seen-- of the charter pilots. We have agreed to disagree, and I DO understand their reason, just as I see the NJ pilots' reasoning.

Quoting from the May 10th NY Times--"Steady growth is being seen in fractional shares, in the hiring of charter business jets, and in time cards...." In this article we learn that NJ saw a 28% increase in their contracts in 2004, over 2003 levels. Now it is only fair to address business for THIS year, as well. According to Mr. Santulli, "The demand we've had in the last four to five months has been incredible."

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS--FRACTIONAL AND CHARTER

ALL PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID ACCORDINGLY

 

[johnny taliban]

I'm under no illusions about the feelings of SOME--how many remains to be seen-- of the charter pilots.

NJW,
actually you are falling prey to an illusion if you think the threat of a "scab list" is going to make ANY CHARTER PILOT think twice about DOING HIS JOB. I wasn't sure earlier but am now COMPLETELY convinced that the "scab list" threat demonstrates your union's lack of confidence that a strike will do anything but cause your owners (customers) to simply take their business else where and leave your pilot group with noth'n. IMHO the problem you guys have is that a strike is not just against your management but may also be seen as a strike against your owners(A.K.A customers). Now thats a tough situation to be in.

Good luck,
Johnny

 

[netjetwife]

As I said, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But thanks for wishing us luck.

 

[gray eagle]

Latest AIN alerts indicates that NJA Pilot's Union and NJA Management further apart now than before the informational picketing conducted during the recent share holders meeting. Anyone care to comment as to the validity of this article?

 

[English]

I just thought giving a fair warning was the right thing to do.

Here's fair warning for the right thing for you to do...get a job and stop living vicariously through your husband!

 

[Hogprint]

Don't read too much into this...we have been close on most, but FAR away on the things that count.

I do not feel the IP has contributed to us being farther apart. If anything it has helped our postion with our owners. A few are opening up to crews on the road, and they know a load of BS when they see it and have said as much.

Eagle, did the article give any specifics? I'll look for it when I go out in a few days.

 

[FAcFriend]

English-

that was harsh to NJW- In some families, the husband and wife work as a team. If there is one thing you have to respect is her teamwork and support to her marriage and their committment for her to be home with her children. There is no fault there.

you can disagree with her politics but she DOES have a job- she is raising kids.

 

[English]

Sorry, that's not a job - that's a responsibility she bought into.

 

[G100driver]

Meeooow ...... oink oink

 

[Fozzy]

Hey English,

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** off.


It is a team effort. If my wife ever decides to add her opinion you will shut your mouth and listen. Any spouse that puts up with this industry has every right to speak their mind.

AND another thing. I could not pay my wife enough money for the wonderful job she does with our children. Yes, it is a responsibility. And one they (njawife and my wife) gladly do day in and out. A job that a great majority in this country ducks and avoids.

You can not pay enough money for someone to be a Mom.

Now go crawl back into your hole.

 

[Boeingman]

Very interesting thread. Ranging from stunning ignorance and delusion to numerous well thought out comments.

Ladies and Gentleman, I have no dog in this fight but from someone who spent 25 months on a picket line may I give one piece of advice. These days, you never, ever leave the cockpit. Especially with the set up of this company and their abiltiy to farm out flying, management will cut through this walk out like a hot knife through butter.

BTW...this won't be popular but it was a lesson we learned the hard way. Pilots don't own the airplanes. If any of you think that this QS registration "are our airplanes" mantra will stop a dedicated union busting effort, you are in for a very rude awakening.

 

[English]

Fozy,

I don't have any problem with netjetwife speaking her mind.

I have a problem with her speaking her husband's mind. And, her calling charter pilots who fly NJ trips scabs.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

G100 Driver, please reread my post above yours. Didn't I basically just do as you request, complete with the thanks for the kind words? My post was directed at Kilroy who HAD expressed concern and asked a question. I felt that he deserved an answer. From now on, as far as this subject is concerned, I'll be replying only to posts like that. The union's position has been made known (yes the explanation I posted came from the top) and I'm under no illusions about the feelings of SOME--how many remains to be seen-- of the charter pilots. We have agreed to disagree, and I DO understand their reason, just as I see the NJ pilots' reasoning.

Quoting from the May 10th NY Times--"Steady growth is being seen in fractional shares, in the hiring of charter business jets, and in time cards...." In this article we learn that NJ saw a 28% increase in their contracts in 2004, over 2003 levels. Now it is only fair to address business for THIS year, as well. According to Mr. Santulli, "The demand we've had in the last four to five months has been incredible."

A RISING TIDE SHOULD LIFT ALL BOATS--FRACTIONAL AND CHARTER

ALL PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE PAID ACCORDINGLY

You might want to read the 10Q, as revenue from fractional share sales was off pretty significantly (more than 30% over 2004) at NetJets in Q1. The "demand" Mr. Santulliwas referring to was in flight hours, and that high demand led to a whole lotta charter. That charter costs a lot more than what the owners pay to get their fractional hours, and cost the company millions. The fractional model is broken, and NetJets management simply hasn't got the market power to support higher wages for the pilots. Customers will simply go elsewhere, until the entire fractional segment is priced correctly. There is no "rising tide" in this business.

Fractional is a time-building career step for pilots, period. It never, ever will be anything else. The customers simply don't value it enough to be more than that. Some might, but not enough.

 

[Elevator 2]

You might want to read the 10Q, as revenue from fractional share sales was off pretty significantly (more than 30% over 2004) at NetJets in Q1. The "demand" Mr. Santulliwas referring to was in flight hours, and that high demand led to a whole lotta charter. That charter costs a lot more than what the owners pay to get their fractional hours, and cost the company millions. The fractional model is broken, and NetJets management simply hasn't got the market power to support higher wages for the pilots. Customers will simply go elsewhere, until the entire fractional segment is priced correctly. There is no "rising tide" in this business.

Fractional is a time-building career step for pilots, period. It never, ever will be anything else. The customers simply don't value it enough to be more than that. Some might, but not enough.

Reeks like former MEC to me...

 

[FAcFriend]

English- NJW is not speaking her husbands mind- she is speaking for herself and has said so many times.

Boeing man- for some it is not a cockpit but a box office

 

[Diesel]

I'll say it again and again.

Fly a QS tail while on Strike you're a scab.

Fly a charter while we're on strike you're just doing your job. No harm no foul

Please don't alienate guys out there that aren't in the same position we are in regards to union protection.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm not trying to alienate, only inform. The union's position was posted on the ASAP board several days ago. The MEC member that wrote the post did so as a clarification to earlier information/posts on the subject which were made before the IBT had given Local 1108 guidance in this strike area.

While, it may not be the personal opinion of some of the NJ pilots posting here; nonetheless, it IS the position of the IBT and of Local 1108. It is only fair that other pilots are informed that this decision WAS MADE AND IS POSTED on the NJASAP board. It doesn't seem right to give those affected by flying struck work false hope... NJ pilots can find the post in the HB section. If the chance that the NJ pilots will have to strike increases in coming weeks, we will all hear (or see, as the case may be) more on the subject--whether we want to or not--I'm afraid.

I should think that getting "blind-sided", by a repercussion they were told they didn't have to worry about, would do more damage than simply apprising someone of the situation.

 

[h25b]

I'm not trying to alienate, only inform. The union's position was posted on the ASAP board several days ago. The MEC member that wrote the post did so as a clarification to earlier information/posts on the subject which were made before the IBT had given Local 1108 guidance in this strike area.

While, it may not be the personal opinion of some of the NJ pilots posting here; nonetheless, it IS the position of the IBT and of Local 1108. It is only fair that other pilots are informed that this decision WAS MADE AND IS POSTED on the NJASAP board. It doesn't seem right to give those affected by flying struck work false hope... NJ pilots can find the post in the HB section. If the chance that the NJ pilots will have to strike increases in coming weeks, we will all hear (or see, as the case may be) more on the subject--whether we want to or not--I'm afraid.

I should think that getting "blind-sided", by a repercussion they were told they didn't have to worry about, would do more damage than simply apprising someone of the situation.

Go read the definition of a scab .... IT DOESN'T APPLY TO THIS SITUATION !

The definition is right there in black and white on the ALPA master scab list.. I think what we're dealing with here is a nasty combination of idiots who can't read... Thanks for the warning. Noone gives a s%$t (including the more reasonable majority of your own membership), but thanks for the warning ...

I'll say it again and again.

Fly a QS tail while on Strike you're a scab.

Fly a charter while we're on strike you're just doing your job. No harm no foul

Please don't alienate guys out there that aren't in the same position we are in regards to union protection.

 

[English]

I'll say it again and again.

Fly a QS tail while on Strike you're a scab.

Fly a charter while we're on strike you're just doing your job. No harm no foul

Please don't alienate guys out there that aren't in the same position we are in regards to union protection.

Hey Diesel,

Stuff like what netjetwife posts is being spread around the charter community. Guys that were, a few weeks ago, talking to their charter coordinators about not taking NJ trips, are now doing a 180. Any support NJ pilots might have garnered form charter pilots goes completely out the window when people like netjetwife start sputtering this nonsense about charter pilots being scabs.

If she is going to continue to try to "educate" us poor stupid charter pilots, then maybe your union should at least give her the right message. She's hurting your cause. I used to be a supporter but after reading her comments there's no way I can support nj pilots.

 

[h25b]

Hey Diesel,

Stuff like what netjetwife posts is being spread around the charter community. Guys that were, a few weeks ago, talking to their charter coordinators about not taking NJ trips, are now doing a 180. Any support NJ pilots might have garnered form charter pilots goes completely out the window when people like netjetwife start sputtering this nonsense about charter pilots being scabs.

If she is going to continue to try to "educate" us poor stupid charter pilots, then maybe your union should at least give her the right message. She's hurting your cause. I used to be a supporter but after reading her comments there's no way I can support nj pilots.

Amazing .... I'm witnessing the same phenomenon ... I think that collective "up-yours" I forecast is starting to materialize .

 

[bluepost]

Straight from the Unions mouth this week. According to Teamsters National anyone flying QS CUSTOMERS will be flying struck work. Teamsters are in contact with the other unions about this work action and that it is properly rated with ALL UNIONS...meaning that there will be a clear line explained to everyone about who is and who is not a scab coming from YOUR union (if you have one).

Our local was the one that stated that charter guys would not be scabs...however, Teamsters national did some investigating and stated that they indeed would be.

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

[h25b]

Straight from the Unions mouth this week. According to Teamsters National anyone flying QS CUSTOMERS will be flying struck work. Teamsters are in contact with the other unions about this work action and that it is properly rated with ALL UNIONS...meaning that there will be a clear line explained to everyone about who is and who is not a scab coming from YOUR union (if you have one).

Our local was the one that stated that charter guys would not be scabs...however, Teamsters national did some investigating and stated that they indeed would be.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Exactly, charter pilots have no union ... Yep, sounds like the work of your average Teamster to me (I'm a former member) ...

For the last time I'll ask someone to explain to me how this could possibly be enforced. Where will you get the names of these charter pilots? There's no way to make good on this threat.

 

[Viffer]

Guys,

The pilots who are, in the case of your strike, going to be flying your customers are the absolute best resource and weapon you will have! They are in direct face to face contact with the frax shareholders, and will no doubt be asked many questions from them about your situation. And yes, we know exactly who we are flying, and if they are NJ customers. Right now because of this stupid nonsense about scabs and 135, there are less and less 135 guys who will care to even try to help your cause when talking to your customers. Your union needs to address this right NOW if you want any support at all from the outside world. You need to send out correct info to 135 companies, ALPA, pilots etc about how this will be handled, and put an end to this BS or we will have an incredible incentive, and amount of power to weild against your cause when we are being attacked for doing our jobs. If I ever hear even a rumor that my name is being slandered I will take every oppurtunity to slam your cause to the shareholders that I can, and I will not be alone. If your union is going to take the position to try to prevent 135 pilots from flying thier trips then you have just killed off the best propoganda tool you could hope to have.

I know that almost all of the NJ pilots know this, and I hope for them that they can be successful in this. Piloting absolutely deserves the professional respect and salary of any other important and highly skilled career. Unfortunately the path of NJ, as I see it from the outside, can only get worse no matter the outcome of this. Your management has nothing but hostility towards your cause, and will never act other than to rid themselves of the union and keep the costs of labor as low as they can get away with. Never. It has gone the same for the airlines for decades and look where they are now. No pilots should be paid as little as so many are and I honestly hope you guys can change things and set a great precedent for your industry. On the other hand the reason the situation exists in the first place is that pilots are always going to accept a job for nothing just to get flight time. Management knows this and will exploit it. If no one accepts a job then the salaries go up across the board overnight. Sounds simple, right?

 

[Ace-of-the-Base]

I'm not trying to alienate, only inform. The union's position was posted on the ASAP board several days ago. The MEC member that wrote the post did so as a clarification to earlier information/posts on the subject which were made before the IBT had given Local 1108 guidance in this strike area.

Don't hide behind the 'Union'. If you didn't WANT this, you would FIGHT your union on this point. It is YOUR union, YOU have a say. So, if you're still hiding behind "I'm just the messenger", give it up. This is what YOU want and the 91/135 world hates you for it.

That, my dear, is the plain, cold truth. My buddies are discusted that a group of peers would put up with their union on this point.

Ace

 

[h25b]

Don't hide behind the 'Union'. If you didn't WANT this, you would FIGHT your union on this point. It is YOUR union, YOU have a say. So, if you're still hiding behind "I'm just the messenger", give it up. This is what YOU want and the 91/135 world hates you for it.

That, my dear, is the plain, cold truth. My buddies are discusted that a group of peers would put up with their union on this point.

Ace

This is very entertaining.... They shout, "MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME!!!! MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME !!!"

After this announcement it's, "don't shoot the messenger ?" (insert sounds of crickets chirping) Hilarious ...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

A bunch of Netjet pilots (and one wife) sitting around trying to defne what a SCAB is.....


truly priceless.

 

[pilotyip]

Iceberg?

You might want to read the 10Q, as revenue from fractional share sales was off pretty significantly (more than 30% over 2004) at NetJets in Q1. The "demand" Mr. Santulliwas referring to was in flight hours, and that high demand led to a whole lotta charter. That charter costs a lot more than what the owners pay to get their fractional hours, and cost the company millions. The fractional model is broken, and NetJets management simply hasn't got the market power to support higher wages for the pilots. Customers will simply go elsewhere, until the entire fractional segment is priced correctly. There is no "rising tide" in this business.

Fractional is a time-building career step for pilots, period. It never, ever will be anything else. The customers simply don't value it enough to be more than that. Some might, but not enough.
Sounds like someone on the Titanic has sighted an iceberg, but so what full speed ahead.